+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 64

Thread: What gives a system slam and dynamics?

  1. #31
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Bishops Stortford

    Posts: 1,250
    I'm Chris.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    Back in the late nineties I used a pair of Castle Harlech speakers with a 300B PP power amp. Around 2000 I changed to a studio power amp with around 300 Watts per channel and some hefty current delivery. The difference in bass grip and control was absolutely mind blowing. To me, that kind of bass grip and control is all about the amplifier.
    I'm not surprised as I believe those speakers have an efficiency of just 88dB. Put that 300B pp with 100db speakers and you could just as well be writing "its all about the speakers."
    Source
    SW1X Universal Music Server UMS I Signature with Power Supply Unit PSU I Signature
    SW1X USB II
    SW1X DAC III Special
    Audiolab 6000 CDT transport
    Amps
    Pre amps -- Hi fi Collective twin mono ladder stepped attenuator, with Charcroft Z-foil and silver wired. And First Watt B1 active no gain buffer.
    Power amps -- Welborne 45 SET monoblocks 1.8W / Decware Taboo 6W / Elekit 300B TU-8600SVK plus further improved components 9W / ICE Power 1000W
    Speakers
    Highly modified Endorphin P17 open baffle speakers containing both vintage and modern alnico drivers and paper cones. All silver wired - 8" Cube Audio FC8 full range drivers and vintage 15" Altec VOTT 416 bass drivers. All sat on Townsend Audio Podium seismic isolation platforms.
    BK Electronics XLS400FF Sub.
    Cabling
    Silver mains cables, interconnects and speaker cables by SW1X
    Headphones
    HRT HeadStreamer and SennHeiser HD650 headphones

  2. #32
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bumpy View Post
    I'm not surprised as I believe those speakers have an efficiency of just 88dB. Put that 300B pp with 100db speakers and you could just as well be writing "its all about the speakers."
    You could be correct there. That amplifier was never a good match with the Castle's and as soon as I connected up some real current and power the damn things changed massively however I have also used various amplifiers with Audio Note AZ-2's and the results were very different so maybe my first comment was just bollocks. It was though my own personal experience of the things I have lived with over about forty years or so. I have always found that big gutsy power amps have a death like grip on the bass and an effortless power to the bass whereas no valve amplifier I have ever owned has had anything like similar. From my own experience I have always found that above say 150 Watts, the sound in the bass is bloody wonderful.

  3. #33
    montesquieu Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bumpy View Post
    I'm not surprised as I believe those speakers have an efficiency of just 88dB. Put that 300B pp with 100db speakers and you could just as well be writing "its all about the speakers."
    Maybe but as I said last night a lot of high-efficiency speakers are about micro dynamics rather than absolute levels, and a lot of them (horns are the typical example) don't produce a good sound evenly across a large frequency sweep when driven hard.

  4. #34
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Maybe but as I said last night a lot of high-efficiency speakers are about micro dynamics rather than absolute levels, and a lot of them (horns are the typical example) don't produce a good sound evenly across a large frequency sweep when driven hard.
    Well that would certainly back up my findings with Klipsch speakers. Bloody stunning with 300B Se amps but seriously not good with high power transistors.

  5. #35
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 6,843
    I'm Justin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    None. They are completely un-related.
    I have never heard an active pre as fast as my passive in my system.

    I remember Wammers going on about passives and losing dynamics/slam years ago. I always wondered what the hell they were talking about.

    So I agree. I have also found the fastest bass I have ever heard comes from my 211 monos. Even after using a number of amps rated at half Kilowatt into 4 Ohms or more.

    My candidates for achieving great slam are very large surface area bass drivers capable of coming to a very sudden stop.

    When you slam a door, that is essentially what is happening.

    Therefore, I use speakers that look like doors

  6. #36
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 6,843
    I'm Justin.

    Default

    To be fair, it seems reasonable that insensitive power amps probably don't respond well to a low output source and a passive.

    That's the only thing I can think of that would cause the active is better at slam/dynamics syndrome.

    Somebody may know better than I, though.

  7. #37
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 6,843
    I'm Justin.

    Default

    And looking at the definition of slam on the web from multiple sources, slam is often defined by citing doors.

    The faster a door is moving the greater the slam. Therefore, since loudspeaker drivers never meet a stop within normal use, you need very high force per unit area to achieve a sudden stop, preferably with a low mass per unit area cone.

    So very high power neodymium or electromagnetic drivers implemented well should be pretty good at it. At least in the world of conventional drivers. Alnico isn't bad either.

  8. #38
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    My candidates for achieving great slam are very large surface area bass drivers capable of coming to a very sudden stop.

    When you slam a door, that is essentially what is happening.

    Therefore, I use speakers that look like doors
    I very definitely agree as I have said many times before on here. Big drivers can shovel loads of air and with a hugely gutsy amplifier are going to sound bloody awesome in the bass. The best I have ever heard like this were Cerwin Vega's powered by some bloody big monster amp. The bloody room sounded like a night club and although not my take on things, the bass was a massive amount of fun.

  9. #39
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 6,843
    I'm Justin.

    Default

    Very rigid cabs / frames are also fundamental. Drivers mounted on front baffles that move/are thin are going to lose. Or so you would think.

    I must stop posting on this subject. TBH it is all fairly obvious.

  10. #40
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,786
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    Very rigid cabs / frames are also fundamental. Drivers mounted on front baffles that move/are thin are going to lose. Or so you would think.

    I must stop posting on this subject. TBH it is all fairly obvious.
    And you were doing so well. But you forgot the microwave and the blender. Bad luck.

    Yes it is about all those things to an extent. But really it's all about big bass drivers.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •