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Thread: Noise reduction

  1. #31
    RothwellAudio Guest

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    A system's zero volt line does not need to be connected to mains earth. Equipment metalwork does need to be connected to mains earth for safety, unless it is double insulated. Making random connections between zero volts and mains earth may occasionally result in an improvement (if you're lucky) but is more likely to cause problems.

    Audio systems shouldn't be treated as some kind mysterious void where black arts and ignorance rule and anything can and should be tried out to see if it makes an improvement, especially where mains electricity in involved. The worst case scenario is somebody gets electrocuted.

  2. #32
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Ah. But this cable has a "Bincho-Tan enabled" wall plug. Says so in the blurb.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  3. #33
    Join Date: Mar 2014

    Location: KY - Scotland

    Posts: 5,465
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Ah. But this cable has a "Bincho-Tan enabled" wall plug. Says so in the blurb.
    So it's extra burnt in

  4. #34
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    So it's extra burnt in
    Presumably. It won't fit UK sockets though. One of those exotic 'Pound Shop' international adaptors would be required.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  5. #35
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Bishops Stortford

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    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    It's a bit of wire with a spade connector, a plug socket and some heatshrink and it costs over 200 dollars. My open mind tells me that is a rip off, even before we get to their nonsense explanation for how it does it does. Why would I pay them 200 bucks when I could make one for a tenner? Their price is entirely based on the idea that they have invented some miracle device and you have to pay a premium for that when in fact it is just a bit of wire. There's so much of this in hi-fi nowadays and it needs calling out for what it is.
    If it was that easy we would all be kitted out with £100 systems, using bell wire and cheap kettle cables. Surely there is some credibility for suppliers that have spent 100s of hours in R & D and material costs in order to produce products that will work for some people. Why must suppliers of 'exotic' kit be painted with the same brush, being exploitative con artists. Long live the innovators I say.

    Nobody is being forced to buy this sort of stuff and my objection is the inference that anyone who does, is gullible and easily conned. Its almost as if anyone who has money to spend this way is not to be trusted out alone.

    Thankfully few people on here come out and destroy products of modest cost as being cheap worthless tat. Why is the inverse true?
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    BK Electronics XLS400FF Sub.
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  6. #36
    Join Date: Aug 2008

    Location: Suffolk, UK

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    I'm Paul.

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    If anyone seriously wants to make or even use one I would suggest they are very careful. Potential can exist between earths of different mains wall outlets, possibly between multiways connected to the same double wall socket. If you plug this into a spare wall socket you could get an awful surprise if your equipment earth is at a different voltage to the mains earth you plug the cable into.
    ~Paul~

  7. #37
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    They do. Not sure what is earthed though. Metal speaker parts like the chassis and magnets or metal crossover enclosures (heaven forbid) perhaps?
    My point being that if a company, such as Tannoy, have implemented it into the design of their speakers, then one would imagine that it (and the principle behind it) has a genuine purpose.

    Marco.
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  8. #38
    RothwellAudio Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by bumpy View Post
    Surely there is some credibility for suppliers that have spent 100s of hours in R & D and material costs in order to produce products that will work for some people. Why must suppliers of 'exotic' kit be painted with the same brush, being exploitative con artists. Long live the innovators I say.
    This isn't exotic kit, it's a piece of wire to connect the 0V side of an RCA socket directly to mains earth. No R&D is required. Some knowledge of electronics is required to realise that this is a dubious thing to do whether it's done with cheap wire or expensive wire. Lack of such knowledge facilitates sales. In my book, taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge looks like exploitation. Add in the high price for something which could even be dangerous and it goes beyond exploitation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primalsea View Post
    If anyone seriously wants to make or even use one I would suggest they are very careful. Potential can exist between earths of different mains wall outlets, possibly between multiways connected to the same double wall socket. If you plug this into a spare wall socket you could get an awful surprise if your equipment earth is at a different voltage to the mains earth you plug the cable into.
    Good advice.

  9. #39
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,771
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I sympathise here with Chris, but can also see the other side of the argument, which is basically trying to protect folk from wasting their money on snake oil (and there's a lot of it about), which I would ask Chris to consider.

    Therefore the 'negativity' expressed towards this product was well-intended. With these types of things it's usually best to remain highly sceptical of the claims made, until proved otherwise.

    However...... Let's also remember that AoS is primarily a subjectivist 'ears first' forum, so whilst keeping the above in mind, we have to guard against automatically rubbishing things, the design of which may *appear* to have little grounds in science. The very last thing I want to see here are people discussing items such as this, and for them simply to be shot down.

    So, folks, let's bear that in mind and not stifle discussions in that way, or the possible learning of something new!

    Marco.
    it isn't that so much as the fact that they claim it does things it can't do. It may well have a beneficial effect on the sound and that is fine. No-one is questioning people's subjective experiences. What is being questioned is what it does and how it does it.

    For example say I came to your place and said give me £200 and I will improve the sound of your system for just £200. You pay me, I mess with your system and yes, it does sound better. You happily pay the £200. Then I reveal that all I have done is turn the volume up half a dB. You would want your £200 back because you could have done that yourself.

    On the other hand if I told you I had performed some secret technical process you would be recommending me to your friends - 'I don't know what he does but I listened before and after and it sounded better after.'
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  10. #40
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Bishops Stortford

    Posts: 1,250
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    I shall make a replica of this 'wire' and try it. Any wire should do, it carries no signal or power, it's just an earth.

    I know what will happen.
    it's just an earth.
    I think this shows on which mast you have already pinned your flag to.

    Let me guess what will happen. If you hear nothing you will declare that the whole concept of acoustically improved earthing through different topology and material is a nonsense.
    Source
    SW1X Universal Music Server UMS I Signature with Power Supply Unit PSU I Signature
    SW1X USB II
    SW1X DAC III Special
    Audiolab 6000 CDT transport
    Amps
    Pre amps -- Hi fi Collective twin mono ladder stepped attenuator, with Charcroft Z-foil and silver wired. And First Watt B1 active no gain buffer.
    Power amps -- Welborne 45 SET monoblocks 1.8W / Decware Taboo 6W / Elekit 300B TU-8600SVK plus further improved components 9W / ICE Power 1000W
    Speakers
    Highly modified Endorphin P17 open baffle speakers containing both vintage and modern alnico drivers and paper cones. All silver wired - 8" Cube Audio FC8 full range drivers and vintage 15" Altec VOTT 416 bass drivers. All sat on Townsend Audio Podium seismic isolation platforms.
    BK Electronics XLS400FF Sub.
    Cabling
    Silver mains cables, interconnects and speaker cables by SW1X
    Headphones
    HRT HeadStreamer and SennHeiser HD650 headphones

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