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Thread: Noise reduction

  1. #21
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    I sympathise here with Chris, but can also see the other side of the argument, which is basically trying to protect folk from wasting their money on snake oil (and there's a lot of it about), which I would ask Chris to consider.

    Therefore the 'negativity' expressed towards this product was well-intended. With these types of things it's usually best to remain highly sceptical of the claims made, until proved otherwise.

    However...... Let's also remember that AoS is primarily a subjectivist 'ears first' forum, so whilst keeping the above in mind, we have to guard against automatically rubbishing things, the design of which may *appear* to have little grounds in science. The very last thing I want to see here are people discussing items such as this, and for them simply to be shot down.

    So, folks, let's bear that in mind and not stifle discussions in that way, or the possible learning of something new!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  2. #22
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,774
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bumpy View Post
    I would ask the question "does it matter". We are all after best sound quality at a price you can afford, so if it offers you that, the rest is of little significance.

    I spent my younger days reading reviews and specs, listening to people who had never really earned the right to give comment, and making judgements about extended base, sweet treble etc etc. In hindsight, what a nonsense that was. Now I just listen to see if I enjoy it. If I do, then am I willing to pay the price for that level of enjoyment.

    Surely that's all that really matters. Oh, and an open mind really helps.
    It's a bit of wire with a spade connector, a plug socket and some heatshrink and it costs over 200 dollars. My open mind tells me that is a rip off, even before we get to their nonsense explanation for how it does it does. Why would I pay them 200 bucks when I could make one for a tenner? Their price is entirely based on the idea that they have invented some miracle device and you have to pay a premium for that when in fact it is just a bit of wire. There's so much of this in hi-fi nowadays and it needs calling out for what it is.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bumpy View Post
    I would ask the question "does it matter". We are all after best sound quality at a price you can afford, so if it offers you that, the rest is of little significance.

    I spent my younger days reading reviews and specs, listening to people who had never really earned the right to give comment, and making judgements about extended base, sweet treble etc etc. In hindsight, what a nonsense that was. Now I just listen to see if I enjoy it. If I do, then am I willing to pay the price for that level of enjoyment?

    Surely that's all that really matters. Oh, and an open mind really helps.
    I completely agree, Chris. At the end of the day, if a subjective improvement is heard with anything, consistently and repeatedly, especially in different environments and situations, then to the listener that improvement is REAL, regardless of whether it's objectively provable or not. I would cite the effect others and I can clearly hear with regards to 'audiophile mains leads', as being a case in point.

    However, as I've said, please don't take the criticism you've encountered here towards this product personally, as a slight against you, as it isn't. Far better for people to make you think twice about whether something has a genuine beneficial effect or not, by scrutinising it and being scpetical, than for them simply to pat you on the back, as it were, when it may simply be a complete waste of money

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #24
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    It's just a bit of wire. Dress it up in fancy sleeving and bung posh plugs on it if you like and hint at all sorts of unsubstantiated effects, but it's still just a bit of wire.

    As for 'noise floor', that's an unquantified term. The S/N ratio of a piece of equipment or the system, is what is meant I think.

    Folk can spend their hard earned money any way they choose, but none of mine would be heading in the direction of an overpriced wire.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  5. #25
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis
    It's just a bit of wire
    Indeed, but it's not necessarily simply about what it *is*, but rather how it's being applied...

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #26
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    I shall make a replica of this 'wire' and try it. Any wire should do, it carries no signal or power, it's just an earth.

    I know what will happen. Either nothing or there'll be hum introduced. A series diode could be interesting, but then it would cease to be an earth.

    It wouldn't surprise me if some bright spark suggests I use screened cable. But then, where would the screen earth to?
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  7. #27
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Go for it. Haven't Tannoy done something similar for years, by providing their latest speakers with an earth terminal?

    Anyway, I'll be interested in your findings

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #28
    Join Date: Mar 2014

    Location: KY - Scotland

    Posts: 5,465
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    I shall make a replica of this 'wire' and try it. Any wire should do, it carries no signal or power, it's just an earth.

    I know what will happen. Either nothing or there'll be hum introduced. A series diode could be interesting, but then it would cease to be an earth.

    It wouldn't surprise me if some bright spark suggests I use screened cable. But then, where would the screen earth to?
    Pity you can't cryo treat it, make sure you use Kevlar coated cable, it will need burnt in, a cable lifter should improve it no end.

    And for god's sake don't get it wet or feed it after midnight

  9. #29
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Go for it. Haven't Tannoy done something similar for years, by providing their latest speakers with an earth terminal?

    Marco.
    They do. Not sure what is earthed though. Metal speaker parts like the chassis and magnets or metal crossover enclosures (heaven forbid) perhaps?
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  10. #30
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    Pity you can't cryo treat it, make sure you use Kevlar coated cable, it will need burnt in, a cable lifter should improve it no end.

    And for god's sake don't get it wet or feed it after midnight
    The 'wire' will actually be run through a sealed bath of liquid Helium containing graphene particles and polished gold plated pure Platinum connectors will be employed. The whole thing, resting on hand turned African Blackwood supports along its length.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

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