+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: Suggestion for Valve phonostage to play MONO records only

  1. #11
    Join Date: Mar 2015

    Location: Berlin

    Posts: 50
    I'm George.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Whatever the mechanics (and the above is a useful observation which would suggest that where the coils are rotated as in the Soundsmith approach, then only one coil is used for output) it's pretty clear that when Ortofon write True Mono in caps and have a special page for all their cartridges, they are obviously NOT talking about simple strapping of a stereo cartridge. Likewise Koetsu who do the same (and who like Ortofon don't have a Miyajima/vintage-like approach with single generator and horizontal only motion), and Lyra who have two mono coils (their approach is documented, Jonathan Carr has several write-ups out there). And Audio Technica whose AT33 monos are true mono as well (I've also owned these in both LP and SP form).

    Or do you claim to know more than the engineers behind these illustrious companies? Are they all putting lies out there?
    What is your problem? It is very simply a question of definition -HOW do we define a true mono design and WHAT is a true mono cartridge in 2017 ? When we have got a definition for something then we can evaluate everything and anything by this definition. That's all. And the opening question for discussion in this thread was if a SPU Mono -not Koetsu, Lyra, Miyajima, Soundsmith- is a true mono cartridge or not...? You can't answer it and Ortofon doesn't address this issue either. So why bother...?

  2. #12
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 30,024
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by forsell View Post
    What is your problem? It is very simply a question of definition -HOW do we define a true mono design and WHAT is a true mono cartridge in 2017 ? When we have got a definition for something then we can evaluate everything and anything by this definition. That's all. And the opening question for discussion in this thread was if a SPU Mono -not Koetsu, Lyra, Miyajima, Soundsmith- is a true mono cartridge or not...? You can't answer it and Ortofon doesn't address this issue either. So why bother...?
    Knock it off George. The first four words and the last three in your post are unnecessary and not helpful!
    Mr. Tact!

    Main system: MMs/ADCs/Low output MC's/One rare Japanese SUT/One scarce British phono stage/various tonearms/hefty Japanese DD TT and hefty Japanese BD TT and small British BD TT. 4 CD players/2 jitter buster/2 DACs/Valve buffer. TVC stepped attenuator or valve pre-amp or solid state pre-amp. Current dumping power-amp or either of two Class A SS power-amp or Class A EL34 valve monos or big Japanese (part Class A) integrated. Big dual concentric speakers/Smaller dual concentric speakers/Two way British compacts and full range speakers, amongst others. And too much more to list!

  3. #13
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 2,235
    I'm Tom.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Knock it off George. The first four words and the last three in your post are unnecessary and not helpful!
    No worries Geoff. Life's too short to bother with trolls, I've finally found out how to add someone to the ignore list, in a decade here I've never felt the need to use it before.
    Speakers - 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys with custom crossovers; Amp - Radford STA100; Preamp - EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII with Ikeda IT345-CR1 and Ortofon 309 Limited tonearms; Cartridges: Miyajima Madake, Zero Mono 0.7 and Premium 1.0 retipped by Ana Mighty Sound with bamboo cantilever, Ortofon SPU Royal N and Shure M3D with Jico stylus; phono stage and SUT from EAR 912; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport.

    'Wer nicht liebt Wein, Weib und Gesang der ist ein Narr sein Leben lang.'

  4. #14
    Join Date: Mar 2015

    Location: Berlin

    Posts: 50
    I'm George.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    No worries Geoff. Life's too short to bother with trolls, I've finally found out how to add someone to the ignore list, in a decade here I've never felt the need to use it before.

    Moderated...
    edited out...

    forsell, any more from you and your out! (struth)
    Last edited by struth; 07-12-2017 at 14:53.

  5. #15
    Join Date: Mar 2015

    Location: Berlin

    Posts: 50
    I'm George.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by forsell View Post
    edited out...

    forsell, any more from you and your out!
    Delete my account please. I am too tired and bored of this "elite club" of a handful "senior members" and adms who think that with +2000 posts they automatically acquire a right for insults and offensive behaviour. Cheers and Good Luck.

  6. #16
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 38,436
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    you were the one handing out the insults. its same rules for everyone.. bye
    Regards,
    Grant ....

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    DENON DV2900 - TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIERS - XIANG SHENG DAC\PRE\HEADPHONE AMP - AVANTREE OASIS CLASS 1 BLUETOOTH - AUDIO TECHNICA ATH-MSR7 & OPPO PM-3 PLANAR HEADPHONES - WIN10 JRIVER23, DEEZER HiFi - ECHO DOT - SMSL M6 MINIDAC - FULL RANGE TWIN TELEFUNKEN's - Q ACOUSTIC BT3 actives - CANTON SUB - MAINS REGENERATED AND FILTERED.

  7. #17
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 16,450
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    I've come late to this 'discussion', so my contibution is probably post hoc, but if the question is to whether the Ortofon SPU Mono (or however it is designated) is a true mono cartridge, then the answer is simple: undo the screw holding the belly plate in position and look inside.

    Are there only two wires connecting to a single coil arranged to respond to lateral groove motion? If yes, then it is a true mono cartridge.

    I can't see why Ortofon would go to the bother of adding a second coil to respond to vertical motion only, because no mono records are cut using vertical modulation. And to replay a stereo record, the coils would have to be connected in a sum and difference arrangement to extract the LH and RH signals.

    I probably only have about less than 50 mono LPs, so I'm happy to use a stereo cartridge and the 'mono' switch on my preamp to play them.



    There is no need for these discussions to descend into rancour and acrimony.
    Last edited by Barry; 07-12-2017 at 15:52. Reason: Addition
    Have you listened to this month's choice in the Album Club?

    Barry

  8. #18
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 6,837
    I'm AnDreW.

    Default

    Just got back to this myself. I cant believe how far off topic this thread has gone. I only wanted suggestions for a mono phonostage, crikey!
    SS CD Teac VRDS25X(Mega Modded) DAC Caiman SEG+Anker PSU DECK 1210 Mat Analog Studio Crystal Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony arm Board Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/Jaeger(low-impedance) connector/3 StageRegs/Recapped PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    Valve PRECroft Epoch(Mega Modded) AMP Sondex S100 SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECK Garrard301 MatTeunto GunMetal Bearing SPH Plinth Moldovan Arm SME 3012(Ikeda Ag wired) PSU NSC MCAg Meister SPU/DECCA Maroon CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker3mm2Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise


  9. #19
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: Cheltenham

    Posts: 719
    I'm Charlie.

    Default

    Like Rexton, I am also rather befuddled about the goings on. Somehow this thread about true valve mono phono stages has drifted into a bit of "handbags" (as one would call it in rugby) about mono cartridge design.

    Forsell is correct in that the original mono cartridge design only included one coil to read lateral modulation on the groove. Many of the modern mono cartridges (not Mijayima) have two coils with the coils rotated 45 degrees, so that the vertical modulation signals cancel out each other (except they don't quite cancel each other out perfectly, according to some). The use of two coils may be a manufacturing cost saving, so that cartridge makers don't have to tool up to make a single coil design for vanishingly small numbers of sales.

    Forsell's point is not unreasonable and I'm afraid that I have a bit of sympathy with him. I don't think his posts were particularly abusive - bit forthright perhaps. OK maybe I'll get banned now.
    R2R: Studer A820 1/2 inch 2 track; Otari MTR-12 1/4 inch 2 track; Sony APR 5003; Sony APR 5002; Studer A807/II. Vinyl: Platine Verdier Allaerts MC1B/Schroeder Model 2 Decca C4E/Hadcock 228 TRON Seven Reference phono. Other analogue source: Nakamichi Dragon with ANT4066 mods. Amplification: TRON Meteor preamp TRON Voyager 20B SET power. Speakers: Avantgarde Duo. Digital: does not compute

  10. #20
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 2,235
    I'm Tom.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by topoxforddoc View Post
    Like Rexton, I am also rather befuddled about the goings on. Somehow this thread about true valve mono phono stages has drifted into a bit of "handbags" (as one would call it in rugby) about mono cartridge design.

    Forsell is correct in that the original mono cartridge design only included one coil to read lateral modulation on the groove. Many of the modern mono cartridges (not Mijayima) have two coils with the coils rotated 45 degrees, so that the vertical modulation signals cancel out each other (except they don't quite cancel each other out perfectly, according to some). The use of two coils may be a manufacturing cost saving, so that cartridge makers don't have to tool up to make a single coil design for vanishingly small numbers of sales.

    Forsell's point is not unreasonable and I'm afraid that I have a bit of sympathy with him. I don't think his posts were particularly abusive - bit forthright perhaps. OK maybe I'll get banned now.
    Surprised you look at it that way Charlie. Rexton, the OP, asked for some advice on getting the best out of his SPU GM Mono mkIIi. In post 3 a relatively new member decided to piss on his chips by asserting that the SPU Mono GM was no better than any old stereo cartridge strapped for mono. As someone with more experience than most in getting the best out of mono I thought I would challenge that. My background is not technical (my first degree was in music, I was an organ scholar, and later became a journalist and, post MBA, a management consultant - I'm no engineer and have never claimed to be one) but I have been through a shed load of kit in this area, in my efforts to get the best out of a large collection of early microgroove mono LPs as well as a fair smattering of 78s.

    Are you saying Charlie that like a certain poster you agree that the entire range of Ortofon 'true mono' cartridges are no better than any old stereo cartridge with the mono button pressed? Because that's what I was challenging. (On the basis of having owned a few of them as well as other mono cartridges, at one point I even had a dedicated mono system).
    Speakers - 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys with custom crossovers; Amp - Radford STA100; Preamp - EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII with Ikeda IT345-CR1 and Ortofon 309 Limited tonearms; Cartridges: Miyajima Madake, Zero Mono 0.7 and Premium 1.0 retipped by Ana Mighty Sound with bamboo cantilever, Ortofon SPU Royal N and Shure M3D with Jico stylus; phono stage and SUT from EAR 912; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport.

    'Wer nicht liebt Wein, Weib und Gesang der ist ein Narr sein Leben lang.'

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast



 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •