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Thread: Vinyl or CD?

  1. #81
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Bass is compressed so sounds 'louder', low bass is in mono so sounds more solid. Vinyl's weaknesses on paper are, ironically, its strengths when actually listening.
    Ok, but I'm not talking about louder, I'm talking about bass on vinyl 12" singles sounding deeper and having more impact/authority than anything I've heard from CD, played at the same level. Well-recorded 12" singles really are special beasts, because you've got the 45rpm factor, plus all that groove surface to devote to often only one song, and so the dynamics can be incredible!

    Now that may not measurably be the case, which I accept, but what does it matter if that's what you *actually* hear? Like you say, vinyl's weaknesses on paper are, ironically, its strengths when actually listening, so who cares about the measurements? Just sit back and enjoy the bass you can FEEL!!

    Of course you could do this with digital too. If you copy your 12 inch vinyl single to digital and level match it should sound pretty much identical to the vinyl.
    Perhaps, but that could be due to the limitations of the digitization process (sound card), mangling the natural bass characteristics of the vinyl. Every process used imparts its own 'signature'.

    Having 'ripped' vinyl to CD many times, using said digitization process, I can say with some certainty that there is no 'free lunch', and thus a sonic penalty is always paid in the results obtained.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Sure, but the point is, when it's gone (in that way), it's GONE for GOOD, and so can't be 'magically retrieved' later

    However, whilst it cannot be disputed that bass dynamics are limited on vinyl recordings, in the way Martin has described, I can't say that I've ever felt that any well-recorded, high-resolution recordings I own on vinyl sound bass-light compared with their CD counterparts.

    Marco.
    However, I was referring to the stereo effect.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Ok, but I'm not talking about louder, I'm talking about bass on vinyl 12" singles sounding deeper and having more impact/authority than anything I've heard from CD, played at the same level.

    Marco.
    Ah yes but there are aural enhancers in studios that will do exactly that when mixing down.

  4. #84
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    Check out a Behringer SX3040 as just one example.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Ok, but I'm not talking about louder, I'm talking about bass on vinyl 12" singles sounding deeper and having more impact/authority than anything I've heard from CD, played at the same level.

    Marco.
    And of course these gadgets are all digital

  6. #86
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Ok, but I'm not talking about louder, I'm talking about bass on vinyl 12" singles sounding deeper and having more impact/authority than anything I've heard from CD, played at the same level. Well-recorded 12" singles really are special beasts, because you've got the 45rpm factor, plus all that groove width to devote to often only one song, and so the dynamics can be incredible!

    Now that may not measurably be the case, which I accept, but what does it matter if that's what you *actually* hear? Like you say, vinyl's weaknesses on paper are, ironically, its strengths when actually listening, so who cares about the measurements? Just sit back and enjoy the bass you can FEEL!!



    Perhaps, but that could be due to the limitations of the digitization process (sound card), mangling the natural bass characteristics of the vinyl. Every process used imparts its own 'signature'.

    Having 'ripped' vinyl to CD many times, using said digitization process, I can say with some certainty that there is no 'free lunch', and thus a sonic penalty is always paid in the results obtained.

    Marco.
    I agree that what it sounds like is what it sounds like regardless of what might technically be going on. What sounds like deeper bass may not actually be deeper bass, if you measured it, however I agree that is irrelevant to our perceptions.

    If your vinyl rip sounds different to actually playing the 12 inch single the likelihood is that you are missing the acoustic feedback, something else about vinyl that is technically undesirable but in reality improves the listening experience. You won't be able to hear the effects of the ADC/DAC in your soundcard unless you loop the signal through it at least half a dozen times.
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I agree that what it sounds like is what it sounds like regardless of what might technically be going on. What sounds like deeper bass may not actually be deeper bass, if you measured it, however I agree that is irrelevant to our perceptions.
    Excellent, now we're getting somewhere, lol! And at the end of the day, when listening to music, it's ultimately only our perceptions that count. Incidentally, the same principles also apply to other aspects of audio, where what's heard doesn't correlate with what's measured

    If your vinyl rip sounds different to actually playing the 12 inch single the likelihood is that you are missing the acoustic feedback, something else about vinyl that is technically undesirable but in reality improves the listening experience. You won't be able to hear the effects of the ADC/DAC in your soundcard unless you loop the signal through it at least half a dozen times.
    Perhaps, but that's not how I'd interpret the results. To my ears, there's an undesirable falseness and 'glare' (in effect an irritating and tiring-sounding coloration) superimposed onto the music, with the digital rip, that is completely absent on the vinyl itself - and it's happened with every rip I've ever done.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #88
    Join Date: Feb 2014

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    A couple of months ago I moved from cd to vinyl myself James.
    I shan't be going back anytime soon.
    All that time and money wasted trying to get digital audio to sound analogue.

    If you're serious about the change spend a couple of hundred quid on a deck and a couple of vinyls.
    If you hate it then you haven't lost owt but if you love it you are on the ground floor and running.

  9. #89
    Join Date: Feb 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by James the Albarry lover View Post
    "About 50 CDs
    0 records"

    I had around 250 CD and no vinyl. A CD or vinyl is just an item.

    "My favourite music is from the 70s and 80s, to be honest I don't like the idea of streaming but I do see the benefits of it, to me the physical side of music is a fun part that I would miss it's nice having something solid for your money wether it be CDs or LPs, I never knew that some modern re releases on vinyl where so bad which is making me edge more towards CD"

    Just because it's on a CD doesn't guarantee good audio.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by agk View Post
    A couple of months ago I moved from cd to vinyl myself James.
    I shan't be going back anytime soon.
    All that time and money wasted trying to get digital audio to sound analogue.

    If you're serious about the change spend a couple of hundred quid on a deck and a couple of vinyls.
    If you hate it then you haven't lost owt but if you love it you are on the ground floor and running.


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