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Thread: harbeth factory tour video

  1. #11
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: West Sūþsēaxe

    Posts: 2,014
    I'm Edward.

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    Thanks for posting this vid. Very good.

    Many years ago - in about 1994 - I went to the Harbeth factory to pick up a set of speakers and Alan kindly gave me a tour of the 'factory' as it was then. Very interesting - the attention to detail was my overriding takeaway . Since then bumped into him a few times, the last was in Munich this year. Interesting 10 minute chat.
    Current: [P20] Roon/Tidal > Custom PC> Chevron Paradox NDF16 > Phast Pre > Neuro. 686 > Tannoy Berkley (RFC tweaks)


  2. #12
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex

    Posts: 7,076
    I'm Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Tim,



    Based on what I saw of Alan Shaw on that video, and what I know about him in general, I would agree. He came across really well there and seemed genuinely warm and friendly. I also admire his approach to loudspeaker design, as outlined in the video.

    I just wish he'd come across like that on the Harbeth user forum, especially when the subject of cables (and such like) comes up, where his science-first objectivist leanings often get the better of him, and he can come across as the complete opposite of warm and friendly!

    He definitely does both himself and Harbeth a gross disservice by writing some of the stuff he does on there. That attitude might appeal to some diehard 'measurists', but I can assure you that it turns off everyone else, especially most subjectivists like me. Maybe he's realised that though and changed? I've not looked there for a long time.

    Anyway, that aside, when it comes to the speakers themselves, I'm a big fan, as like you, I enjoy their 'natural sound', and thus how they've been voiced to reproduce music, and especially the human voice, as believably as possible. I admire their heritage and in general am a fan of BBC-based loudspeaker designs.

    Plus, Harbeth speakers are beautifully made and not stupidly priced either, considering the quality on offer, and what some other so-called 'high-end' manufacturers charge for their designs!

    Enjoy yours when you get some more, mate

    Marco.
    Exactly so.

    Have you seen the thread "Amp upgrade towards Luxman" on the HUG ? I have patiently tried to explain that no owner or potential owner of a pair of Harbeths is going to even consider a £300 mass market amp. He disagreed, told me my customers must be 'different' and did a phone round of other UK dealers. He got the same answer from them.

    There are two, just two, on the HUG who constantly bang on about the £300 amp thing to every enquiry. Similarly, all cables, CD players sound the same. Turntables are crap and stands make no difference. Naturally, this puts people off and they never bother with the HUG again. It's a pity as this attitude is putting off people from joining in on the HUG as they do on AOS.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: west mids, UK

    Posts: 3,261
    I'm Phil.

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    and yet , you see those amazing stands from hi fi racks with many users . surely they would not bother spending such a lot if they did not bother .

    http://www.hifiracks.co.uk/products/...r-stands/Grand

    i can`t afford the 800 pound price tag and if i ever do it will be an ikea type stand possibly with the new iso pucks

    https://www.gear4music.com/Recording...SABEgKnTvD_BwE
    Last edited by hifinutt; 03-12-2017 at 16:25. Reason: still not able to embed !!
    ou might slip, you might slide, you might
    Stumble and fall by the road side
    But don't you ever let nobody drag your spirit down
    Remember you're walking up to heaven

    Don't let nobody turn you around
    … Walk with the rich, walk with the poor
    Learn from everyone, that's what life is for
    And don't you let nobody drag your spirit down

    Eric Bibb

  4. #14
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: west mids, UK

    Posts: 3,261
    I'm Phil.

    Default



    ah it worked marco , thanks
    ou might slip, you might slide, you might
    Stumble and fall by the road side
    But don't you ever let nobody drag your spirit down
    Remember you're walking up to heaven

    Don't let nobody turn you around
    … Walk with the rich, walk with the poor
    Learn from everyone, that's what life is for
    And don't you let nobody drag your spirit down

    Eric Bibb

  5. #15
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #16
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hifi_dave View Post
    Have you seen the thread "Amp upgrade towards Luxman" on the HUG ? I have patiently tried to explain that no owner or potential owner of a pair of Harbeths is going to even consider a £300 mass market amp. He disagreed, told me my customers must be 'different' and did a phone round of other UK dealers. He got the same answer from them.
    Lol... You see it's that type of nonsense that completely undermines Alan Shaw as the (undoubtedly talented and knowledgeable) loudspeaker designer he is. I wonder what kind of amp(s) the guy interviewing him on the video was using with his Harbeths, for example?

    I doubt it'd have been a cheap mass-market one (as he doesn't seem the type), and so how would he have reacted if AS had arrogantly told him that whatever hi-end amp he was using was unnecessary, and that a £300 mass-market one instead would've been 'adequate', and indeed indiscernible from it?

    Would he have left the factory afterwards still as big a fan of Alan Shaw? Somehow I doubt it.

    There are two, just two, on the HUG who constantly bang on about the £300 amp thing to every enquiry. Similarly, all cables, CD players sound the same. Turntables are crap and stands make no difference. Naturally, this puts people off and they never bother with the HUG again. It's a pity as this attitude is putting off people from joining in on the HUG as they do on AOS.
    My point exactly, Dave. That blinkered attitude and the nonsensical 'advice' being offered on the Harbeth forum does the company and AS no favours whatsoever.

    However, that is quite common amongst a lot of engineers I've encountered. They think they know it all, are extremely ego-driven (up their own arse), and often completely blinded by what they consider is the efficacy of their 'science first' approach to audio, to even entertain the notion that in some areas they might be wrong!

    However, as I've said, none of that should detract from the quality of the speakers, which as you know is superb.

    It's also great to see a small British company doing well in the current trading climate, and in terms of how the hi-fi industry has gone in recent times, so long may that continue. They'd probably do even better if they ended the perpetration of such arrant objectivist bollox, on a forum that effectively acts as a 'shop window' for the company and its products

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  7. #17
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex

    Posts: 7,076
    I'm Dave.

    Default

    The Harbeth range of speakers are wonderful, it's the ridiculous, misguided views on the HUG which annoy me.

    If you browse through the HUG you will find that there are, at most, 4 or 5 regulars on there, who hold these "nothing makes any difference" views and one of those doesn't even own any Harbeths !!! So it's these opinions which people read and then go elsewhere for info and advice.

    Out of all my Harbeth customers I have only one remaining who visit the HUG and he is on the verge of not bothering anymore. The speakers sell, despite the HUG and not because of it. Very sad.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Deleted

    Posts: 6,585
    I'm Deleted.

    Default

    I watched the Harbeth vid but found it more parochial than anything. AS admits at one point that he has little contact with, or awareness of, the work of other designers and the truth of that is clear from some of the comments he makes. Whilst it may be true that some speaker designers may still design entirely be ear (as AS suggests) the vast majority do all the leg work using CAD and only do final voicing by ear (if that). In addition, at one point he proudly shows an injection moulded cone and, when asked, suggests this is unique to Harbeth. Well that exact cone may be but certainly the concept of injection moulding cones (rather than vacuum forming them) is nothing new at all and speaker manufacturers were doing it thirty years ago. In fact, if light, stiff and well damped cone technology is what he wants (and that does seem to be what he is saying), there are some very much more sophisticated technologies available and they have been for some time.
    Account Deleted

  9. #19
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: West Sūþsēaxe

    Posts: 2,014
    I'm Edward.

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    Perhaps Alan Shaw should be invited to respond to the points being made about him, the Harbeth user group and his company?
    Current: [P20] Roon/Tidal > Custom PC> Chevron Paradox NDF16 > Phast Pre > Neuro. 686 > Tannoy Berkley (RFC tweaks)


  10. #20
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Hi Edward,

    He's free to join if he wishes, and doesn't really require an invite. However, should anyone wish to, they could join HUG (if not already a member) and alert him to the existence of this thread, whereafter he may decide to join and add his thoughts to the discussion.

    Dave, you're a member of HUG, so feel free to go there and link to this discussion. I, for one, would have no problem chatting to Alan about anything that's been written here

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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