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Thread: harbeth factory tour video

  1. #61
    Join Date: Oct 2017

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    I'm Bob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Quite true. But what's that got to do with loudspeakers?
    I would guess I am in the audio sceptic camp, I am using an Xbox One and a Surface Pro 4 as my sources on my two systems, and I am not going to be a good customer when it comes to expensive interconnects, but speakers and the rooms you use them in are analogue, the same as the voice and instrument's you are trying to reproduce (Well unless your pleasure is sitting looking at your Hi-Fi), I am sure improvements in speaker design can be made using computers.

    But if something sounds good, but it was built before computers I am not going to junk it because someone comes out with a new computerised design and build that may or may not sound as good just because it looks better on a graph.

    Would have thought someone selling audio gear mainly used to play music would have appreciated that.

  2. #62
    Join Date: Oct 2016

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobvfr View Post
    But if something sounds good, but it was built before computers I am not going to junk it because someone comes out with a new computerised design and build that may or may not sound as good just because it looks better on a graph.
    That makes perfect sense to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by bobvfr View Post
    Would have thought someone selling audio gear mainly used to play music would have appreciated that.
    I'm still not getting it - Stradivarius made violins and didn't use a computer. What has that got to do with designing loudspeakers?

    Quite often I hear people talking about musical instruments and hi-fi as if the design principles, materials employed etc. were somehow similar, or even identical. For example, when the subject of "the best" material to use in the construction of a turntable comes up there will be people who suggest using maple because it's used in such-and-such a musical instrument, or suggest using spruce because it's used for guitar tops, or whatever.
    Musical instruments aren't hi-fi and there's really no connection between the manufacture of the two.

  3. #63
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    I think the point might be, Andrew, that Strad's violin was hand-built by him using bespoke materials, and 'voiced' by ear. And it sounds both superb and unique for it, potentially just like loudspeakers can, without the aid of computers

    And one couldn't ever imagine a violin being designed by computer that sounded any good!

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

  4. #64
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    And if that wasn't enough the musicians, when blind, rated the Stradavarius below a modern violin, preferring the modern one https://www.thestrad.com/blind-teste...ts/994.article
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Sony X505ES CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / NVA A30 Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  5. #65
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I wonder if a blind test between old designed by ears speakers and modern computer designs would throw up some surprises? Once the emotional / romantic investment in the old speakers was removed as a factor, would we prefer the modern ones?
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Sony X505ES CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / NVA A30 Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  6. #66
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Witney Oxon

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    I'm Martyn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    That makes perfect sense to me.

    I'm still not getting it - Stradivarius made violins and didn't use a computer. What has that got to do with designing loudspeakers?

    Quite often I hear people talking about musical instruments and hi-fi as if the design principles, materials employed etc. were somehow similar, or even identical. For example, when the subject of "the best" material to use in the construction of a turntable comes up there will be people who suggest using maple because it's used in such-and-such a musical instrument, or suggest using spruce because it's used for guitar tops, or whatever.
    Musical instruments aren't hi-fi and there's really no connection between the manufacture of the two.
    There is connection.
    Wood for musical instruments is chosen for its effect on the ‘sound’ of the instrument.
    I have discussed this with a friend who builds cellos.
    I told him about loudspeaker cabinets ( my area ) and the use of birch ply for speakers
    such as the Spendor BC1.
    We could both see the relevance of the materials used in each of our areas.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I wonder if a blind test between old designed by ears speakers and modern computer designs would throw up some surprises? Once the emotional / romantic investment in the old speakers was removed as a factor, would we prefer the modern ones?
    Indeed - I'd love to do a test like that! I suspect that some might find the results rather 'disconcerting', though... Btw, you can also have 'emotional investment' in modern speakers, especially if you've paid a fortune for them, and WANT them to be the best!

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

  8. #68
    Join Date: Mar 2015

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    I see. That must mean that all the respected and sought after 'pre-computer age' classic vintage speakers were the products of "chancers" surely?
    The posting you are referring to was.[rude language removed - admin]... All mathematical equations to perform network analysis are known for ages. These mathematical equations are implemented in CAD software for crossover design. What you only have to do is provide input with your crossover configuration, all parameters required and press the "Start" button. The program makes exactly the same calculations that engineers made "by hand" in the pre-computer era. The only advantage is the "time saving factor". In pre-computer era engineers had to calculate every variation in layout + parameter input from new by hand, nowadays the software makes it all. In the pre-computer time you needed around 3 months to get an optimized version of a crossover design, with a CAD software you can make the same job withing 3 days.
    Last edited by Marco; 07-12-2017 at 12:33. Reason: Rude language removed. We don't address each other that way here.

  9. #69
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Indeed - I'd love to do a test like that! I suspect that some might find the results rather 'unsettling', though... Btw, you can also have 'emotional investment' in modern speakers, especially if you've paid a fortune for them!

    Marco.
    You certainly can, but I am suggesting that the main potential bias will be from those of us who love it when the old betters the new. It's like Rocky where he fights the Russian. The Russian has the latest hi-tech training environment with computer monitoring and optimisation, Rocky has to do pull ups on a tree branch.
    No-one wants the Russian to win, probably not even Russians, because his training is modern, high tech and therefore soulless whereas Rocky's is traditional, organic and primitive, and therefore has 'heart'.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Sony X505ES CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / NVA A30 Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  10. #70
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martyn Miles View Post
    There is connection.
    Wood for musical instruments is chosen for its effect on the ‘sound’ of the instrument.
    I have discussed this with a friend who builds cellos.
    I told him about loudspeaker cabinets ( my area ) and the use of birch ply for speakers
    such as the Spendor BC1.
    We could both see the relevance of the materials used in each of our areas.
    Yup, especially as vintage Spendors, and all Harbeths, are designed along the principles of allowing the cabinet to influence the sound (as was outlined in the video), and then dealing with that issue elsewhere, rather than fighting against what is going to happen anyway.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

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