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Thread: harbeth factory tour video

  1. #61
    Join Date: Oct 2017

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    I'm Bob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Quite true. But what's that got to do with loudspeakers?
    I would guess I am in the audio sceptic camp, I am using an Xbox One and a Surface Pro 4 as my sources on my two systems, and I am not going to be a good customer when it comes to expensive interconnects, but speakers and the rooms you use them in are analogue, the same as the voice and instrument's you are trying to reproduce (Well unless your pleasure is sitting looking at your Hi-Fi), I am sure improvements in speaker design can be made using computers.

    But if something sounds good, but it was built before computers I am not going to junk it because someone comes out with a new computerised design and build that may or may not sound as good just because it looks better on a graph.

    Would have thought someone selling audio gear mainly used to play music would have appreciated that.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobvfr View Post
    But if something sounds good, but it was built before computers I am not going to junk it because someone comes out with a new computerised design and build that may or may not sound as good just because it looks better on a graph.
    That makes perfect sense to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by bobvfr View Post
    Would have thought someone selling audio gear mainly used to play music would have appreciated that.
    I'm still not getting it - Stradivarius made violins and didn't use a computer. What has that got to do with designing loudspeakers?

    Quite often I hear people talking about musical instruments and hi-fi as if the design principles, materials employed etc. were somehow similar, or even identical. For example, when the subject of "the best" material to use in the construction of a turntable comes up there will be people who suggest using maple because it's used in such-and-such a musical instrument, or suggest using spruce because it's used for guitar tops, or whatever.
    Musical instruments aren't hi-fi and there's really no connection between the manufacture of the two.

  3. #63
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    I think the point might be, Andrew, that Strad's violin was hand-built by him using bespoke materials, and 'voiced' by ear. And it sounds both superb and unique for it, potentially just like loudspeakers can, without the aid of computers

    And one couldn't ever imagine a violin being designed by computer that sounded any good!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #64
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    And if that wasn't enough the musicians, when blind, rated the Stradavarius below a modern violin, preferring the modern one https://www.thestrad.com/blind-teste...ts/994.article
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  5. #65
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I wonder if a blind test between old designed by ears speakers and modern computer designs would throw up some surprises? Once the emotional / romantic investment in the old speakers was removed as a factor, would we prefer the modern ones?
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  6. #66
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Witney Oxon

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    I'm Martyn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    That makes perfect sense to me.

    I'm still not getting it - Stradivarius made violins and didn't use a computer. What has that got to do with designing loudspeakers?

    Quite often I hear people talking about musical instruments and hi-fi as if the design principles, materials employed etc. were somehow similar, or even identical. For example, when the subject of "the best" material to use in the construction of a turntable comes up there will be people who suggest using maple because it's used in such-and-such a musical instrument, or suggest using spruce because it's used for guitar tops, or whatever.
    Musical instruments aren't hi-fi and there's really no connection between the manufacture of the two.
    There is connection.
    Wood for musical instruments is chosen for its effect on the ‘sound’ of the instrument.
    I have discussed this with a friend who builds cellos.
    I told him about loudspeaker cabinets ( my area ) and the use of birch ply for speakers
    such as the Spendor BC1.
    We could both see the relevance of the materials used in each of our areas.

  7. #67
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I wonder if a blind test between old designed by ears speakers and modern computer designs would throw up some surprises? Once the emotional / romantic investment in the old speakers was removed as a factor, would we prefer the modern ones?
    Indeed - I'd love to do a test like that! I suspect that some might find the results rather 'disconcerting', though... Btw, you can also have 'emotional investment' in modern speakers, especially if you've paid a fortune for them, and WANT them to be the best!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #68
    Join Date: Mar 2015

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    I'm George.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    I see. That must mean that all the respected and sought after 'pre-computer age' classic vintage speakers were the products of "chancers" surely?
    The posting you are referring to was.[rude language removed - admin]... All mathematical equations to perform network analysis are known for ages. These mathematical equations are implemented in CAD software for crossover design. What you only have to do is provide input with your crossover configuration, all parameters required and press the "Start" button. The program makes exactly the same calculations that engineers made "by hand" in the pre-computer era. The only advantage is the "time saving factor". In pre-computer era engineers had to calculate every variation in layout + parameter input from new by hand, nowadays the software makes it all. In the pre-computer time you needed around 3 months to get an optimized version of a crossover design, with a CAD software you can make the same job withing 3 days.
    Last edited by Marco; 07-12-2017 at 12:33. Reason: Rude language removed. We don't address each other that way here.

  9. #69
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,778
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Indeed - I'd love to do a test like that! I suspect that some might find the results rather 'unsettling', though... Btw, you can also have 'emotional investment' in modern speakers, especially if you've paid a fortune for them!

    Marco.
    You certainly can, but I am suggesting that the main potential bias will be from those of us who love it when the old betters the new. It's like Rocky where he fights the Russian. The Russian has the latest hi-tech training environment with computer monitoring and optimisation, Rocky has to do pull ups on a tree branch.
    No-one wants the Russian to win, probably not even Russians, because his training is modern, high tech and therefore soulless whereas Rocky's is traditional, organic and primitive, and therefore has 'heart'.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  10. #70
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martyn Miles View Post
    There is connection.
    Wood for musical instruments is chosen for its effect on the ‘sound’ of the instrument.
    I have discussed this with a friend who builds cellos.
    I told him about loudspeaker cabinets ( my area ) and the use of birch ply for speakers
    such as the Spendor BC1.
    We could both see the relevance of the materials used in each of our areas.
    Yup, especially as vintage Spendors, and all Harbeths, are designed along the principles of allowing the cabinet to influence the sound (as was outlined in the video), and then dealing with that issue elsewhere, rather than fighting against what is going to happen anyway.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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