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Thread: SACD, how do you REALLY feel about it?

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  1. #1
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,736
    I'm Russell.

    Default SACD, how do you REALLY feel about it?

    I recently bought a used CD player, a Cary 306.200. Which sold for a tidy sum when new, and at 5 years old it plays CD’s sublimely. (Is that a word?). I could not be happier with its performance! But it does not play SACD’s, and when I was shopping I pondered buying a unit that did play SACD, or perhaps a universal player. I reasoned that I don’t presently own any SACD’s or DVDA’s, so why pay for the hardware to play them? Plus, a search on available titles proved lacking in the music I like.

    So what am I missing? Is it really great? Does it trounce regular CD’s? Is it worth the trouble even with limited titles? Or can you take it or leave it? I see a lot of you listing SACD’s in the “What’s Spinning?”, thread. Please share your thoughts!

    Russell


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  2. #2
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: gone

    Posts: 11,519
    I'm gone.

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    I've had a few SACD-capable players over the years.
    Waste of time, imho.

    I didn't really notice any difference, the individual recording differences between albums were way bigger than any SACD benefits I might (or might not) have heard.

    And, worse, they brought out an OCD element in my personality that isn't usually in evidence - despite not really hearing any worthwhile improvement I found I was restricting my musical diet to SACD recordings! And buying more and more of the damned expensive things. And usually the best albums are not available on SACD anyway.

    What a muffin.

    So, no SACD for me, thanks.
    .

  3. #3
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: England

    Posts: 290
    I'm James.

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    DSD whether it comes from an SACD or a file from a PC sounds dull and lifeless to me.
    I too don't get what the fuss is about, give me good ol' PCM anytime.

    Jim.

  4. #4
    montesquieu Guest

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    I never got into SACD although I guess in the world of streaming the hi-res masters it spawned will no doubt not be wasted. (Though I suspect there are hi-res digital masters of almost everything produced in the last 20 years ... 24/96 and subsequently 24/192 have between them been the studio standard for a long time.)

    I could never see the point of dedicated SACD players, although I owned a couple out of curiosity (Sony and Denon, can't remember the model numbers). Why? Because with a proper DAC like my Audio Note, redbook actually sounded better than SACD through your average SACD player ouput stage. I think redbook, done properly (that is, with due attention paid to the output stage, just as much as to the digital side) can sound amazing. SACD likewise ... but nothing I've heard really made the effort so build a separate setup seem worthwhile.

    My AN DAC can do 24/96 (I've had some fun with the hi-res version of Qobuz) but the quality of the musical experience seems to me to be completely decoupled from the resolution or bit rate. The quality of the performance and its recording and mastering is far, far, far more important than the resolution of the media it's recorded to.

    Anyway FWIW in my view it's a 'nearly' format, killed off ironically by shitty low res MP3s as the great unwashed moved to listening to Britney and Beyonce on their iPods, rather than spending money as they were supposed to on a 'better' digital format.

    Sony might see a new lease of life if they allowed direct DSD digital output from a new generation of SACD transports (their refusal to do this all but guaranteed SACD's irrelevance in the world of hi-res DACs and streaming) but I suspect it's too late now regardless. A curiosity, a dead end, a nearly idea with a few diehard fans, like Betamax and Laserdisk. Close but no cigar.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 2,146
    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    I think redbook, done properly (that is, with due attention paid to the output stage, just as much as to the digital side) can sound amazing......The quality of the performance and its recording and mastering is far, far, far more important than the resolution of the media it's recorded to
    +1 Tom, when redbook is delivered properly I can't see what more is to be gained!
    "lack of passion is fatal"


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  6. #6
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: North Down /Northern Ireland/ UK

    Posts: 19,484
    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    I never got into SACD although I guess in the world of streaming the hi-res masters it spawned will no doubt not be wasted. (Though I suspect there are hi-res digital masters of almost everything produced in the last 20 years ... 24/96 and subsequently 24/192 have between them been the studio standard for a long time.)

    I could never see the point of dedicated SACD players, although I owned a couple out of curiosity (Sony and Denon, can't remember the model numbers). Why? Because with a proper DAC like my Audio Note, redbook actually sounded better than SACD through your average SACD player ouput stage. I think redbook, done properly (that is, with due attention paid to the output stage, just as much as to the digital side) can sound amazing. SACD likewise ... but nothing I've heard really made the effort so build a separate setup seem worthwhile.

    My AN DAC can do 24/96 (I've had some fun with the hi-res version of Qobuz) but the quality of the musical experience seems to me to be completely decoupled from the resolution or bit rate. The quality of the performance and its recording and mastering is far, far, far more important than the resolution of the media it's recorded to.

    Anyway FWIW in my view it's a 'nearly' format, killed off ironically by shitty low res MP3s as the great unwashed moved to listening to Britney and Beyonce on their iPods, rather than spending money as they were supposed to on a 'better' digital format.

    Sony might see a new lease of life if they allowed direct DSD digital output from a new generation of SACD transports (their refusal to do this all but guaranteed SACD's irrelevance in the world of hi-res DACs and streaming) but I suspect it's too late now regardless. A curiosity, a dead end, a nearly idea with a few diehard fans, like Betamax and Laserdisk. Close but no cigar.
    Not tried this yet but the Sony HAPZ1 had a recent software/operational tweak which makes the USB a digital out now, and as the HAP plays DSD and can convert files to DSD (also comes with DSD sample tracks) I plan on trying it with a DAC I have that is DSD compatible. If this works then that is a step forward.

    Esoteric equipment has two DSD output options Firewire and twin XLR outputs, both sound excellent.
    Regards Neil

  7. #7
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L View Post
    Not tried this yet but the Sony HAPZ1 had a recent software/operational tweak which makes the USB a digital out now, and as the HAP plays DSD and can convert files to DSD (also comes with DSD sample tracks) I plan on trying it with a DAC I have that is DSD compatible. If this works then that is a step forward.

    Esoteric equipment has two DSD output options Firewire and twin XLR outputs, both sound excellent.
    Interesting, Neil. It was always my understanding that just about all SACD transports to date only output PCM over SPDIF, via a conversion process, most can't output native DSD, so it's pretty cool that some are doing that. It would be pretty cool to be able to make a direct comparison.

    My DAC doesn't read native DSD but my newly-acquired Mutec MC3+USB reclocking device does, though it performs a conversion to PCM in passing the signal through, that's supposed to be done in a reasonably sophisticated way but is a conversion nonetheless. I assume the DSD input is only over USB but I haven't checked. Conversion is frought with difficulty though because the whole stream is handled entirely differently, DSD is only 1 bit but a massively higher sample rate.

    Very few SACD recordings were done natively in 1bit DSD anyway, most are conversions of 24/96 or 24/192 in the studio. So they get quantized on the way to DSD format, and conversion to PCM quantizes them on the way out - not ideal and there are strong arugments on the high-res side for keeping things PCM.

    Some interesting info out there on the relationships between DSD and PCM and it seems to me that which format is 'better' is not always clear cut. Here's one example which though it's by a DAC vendor explains things rather well. http://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/dsd-v...myth-vs-truth/

  8. #8
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    I can play sacd but almost always play the cd layer. Not a big fan
    Regards,
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  9. #9
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

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    SACD was yesterday's con.

    The new con is MQA. I wouldn't buy into that, either.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Dec 2016

    Location: Kent TN8

    Posts: 136
    I'm Graham.

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    I sold all my SACD's,went through a phase of buying quite a few,but as mentioned before I just didn't get them and preferred the original CD,did make a tidy profit on them though
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