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Thread: SACD, how do you REALLY feel about it?

  1. #21
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 2,130
    I'm Tom.

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    I never got into SACD although I guess in the world of streaming the hi-res masters it spawned will no doubt not be wasted. (Though I suspect there are hi-res digital masters of almost everything produced in the last 20 years ... 24/96 and subsequently 24/192 have between them been the studio standard for a long time.)

    I could never see the point of dedicated SACD players, although I owned a couple out of curiosity (Sony and Denon, can't remember the model numbers). Why? Because with a proper DAC like my Audio Note, redbook actually sounded better than SACD through your average SACD player ouput stage. I think redbook, done properly (that is, with due attention paid to the output stage, just as much as to the digital side) can sound amazing. SACD likewise ... but nothing I've heard really made the effort so build a separate setup seem worthwhile.

    My AN DAC can do 24/96 (I've had some fun with the hi-res version of Qobuz) but the quality of the musical experience seems to me to be completely decoupled from the resolution or bit rate. The quality of the performance and its recording and mastering is far, far, far more important than the resolution of the media it's recorded to.

    Anyway FWIW in my view it's a 'nearly' format, killed off ironically by shitty low res MP3s as the great unwashed moved to listening to Britney and Beyonce on their iPods, rather than spending money as they were supposed to on a 'better' digital format.

    Sony might see a new lease of life if they allowed direct DSD digital output from a new generation of SACD transports (their refusal to do this all but guaranteed SACD's irrelevance in the world of hi-res DACs and streaming) but I suspect it's too late now regardless. A curiosity, a dead end, a nearly idea with a few diehard fans, like Betamax and Laserdisk. Close but no cigar.
    Speakers - 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys with custom crossovers; Amp - Radford STA100; Preamp - EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII with Ikeda IT345-CR1 and Ortofon 309 Limited tonearms; Cartridges: Miyajima Madake, Zero Mono 0.7 and Premium 1.0 retipped by Ana Mighty Sound with bamboo cantilever, Ortofon SPU Royal N and Shure M3D with Jico stylus; phono stage and SUT from EAR 912; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport.

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  2. #22
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 417
    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    I think redbook, done properly (that is, with due attention paid to the output stage, just as much as to the digital side) can sound amazing......The quality of the performance and its recording and mastering is far, far, far more important than the resolution of the media it's recorded to
    +1 Tom, when redbook is delivered properly I can't see what more is to be gained!
    "lack of passion is fatal"
    LP12, Kore, Lingo2, Aro, SKale / DV XX2Mk2 / WAD 300b Power Modded, Mesh Plate Valves / David Coe AD Audio 'Satchmo' Pre & Phono / Hashimoto HM-7 SUT / AD Audio 'Little Gate' Jfet MC Cartridge Amp / Tannoy 12" MGs in Chatsworth size cabs / Speaker Cables: Duelund DCA16GA / Rpi3 & Digi + pro / SW1X Audio Design USB-SPdif / SW1X Audio Design DAC 1 Signature / Interconnects: Duelund DCA20GA home brew / SW1X Audio Phono SPDIF AERO 6 / David Coe AD Audio Silver USB / Synology NAS Drive / Tidal HiFi

  3. #23
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: Melksham, Wiltshire

    Posts: 279
    I'm Peter.

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    Isnít that the whole point of this forum!!! We like what we like !!!!!

    What you guys like, is not necessarily my taste. Par say!!!!


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  4. #24
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: Melksham, Wiltshire

    Posts: 279
    I'm Peter.

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    I sometimes wish I could express myself better..... when you pay £10k + for a SACD you expect the Earth and more.. For me, it didnít do it (My mistake) just trying to explain the pit falls.

    However, if no one is listening.... Hay ho.



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  5. #25
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 417
    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    I sometimes wish I could express myself better..... when you pay £10k + for a SACD you expect the Earth and more.. For me, it didn’t do it (My mistake) just trying to explain the pit falls.

    However, if no one is listening.... Hay ho.
    Peter, I'm sure people are listening and your findings and views are valid.
    "lack of passion is fatal"
    LP12, Kore, Lingo2, Aro, SKale / DV XX2Mk2 / WAD 300b Power Modded, Mesh Plate Valves / David Coe AD Audio 'Satchmo' Pre & Phono / Hashimoto HM-7 SUT / AD Audio 'Little Gate' Jfet MC Cartridge Amp / Tannoy 12" MGs in Chatsworth size cabs / Speaker Cables: Duelund DCA16GA / Rpi3 & Digi + pro / SW1X Audio Design USB-SPdif / SW1X Audio Design DAC 1 Signature / Interconnects: Duelund DCA20GA home brew / SW1X Audio Phono SPDIF AERO 6 / David Coe AD Audio Silver USB / Synology NAS Drive / Tidal HiFi

  6. #26
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 6,270
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Exactly, we can only share our own personal experiences, which can be taken with a pinch of salt in many cases, However; sometimes there is a common theme that the majority will experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    Isn’t that the whole point of this forum!!! We like what we like !!!!!

    What you guys like, is not necessarily my taste. Par say!!!!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla


  7. #27
    Join Date: Jan 2014

    Location: County Durham, England

    Posts: 545
    I'm Malcolm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    I sometimes wish I could express myself better..... when you pay £10k + for a SACD you expect the Earth and more.. For me, it didn’t do it (My mistake) just trying to explain the pit falls.

    However, if no one is listening.... Hay ho.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I think we are listening - and with these things it's a case of each to his own to a great degree. I'd say your experience is relevant, and anyone auditioning a megabucks SACD player (or at any level) should do so with these things in mind. Certainly, the idea that there's lots of mileage in redbook standard 16/44 (whether from CD, FLAC, ALAC, WAV, stored or streamed) is powerful.

    Technics SL1210 MkII / SME 309 / Timestep PSU / Achromat / Denon DL-304
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  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Forest of Dean, Glos & Cambrian mountains, Wales

    Posts: 9,071
    I'm Jerry.

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    Yep, I have a pretty good system imo, and I am a discerning listener, once again imo! - and Red Book standard or near equivalent is just fine and dandy as far as I am concerned.
    Jerry

    Spotify Premium streaming, Wadia 151 PowerDAC, MBL 116F.
    or
    >> Currently >>Spotify Premium streaming, Cambridge Audio 851D DAC/pre, Pass Labs X150 power amp, MBL 116F.
    or
    Spotify Premium streaming, Cambridge Audio 851D DAC/pre, LA Audio A-30 el84 integrated amp, MBL 116F.

  9. #29
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Belfast/Northern Ireland/UK

    Posts: 16,595
    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    I never got into SACD although I guess in the world of streaming the hi-res masters it spawned will no doubt not be wasted. (Though I suspect there are hi-res digital masters of almost everything produced in the last 20 years ... 24/96 and subsequently 24/192 have between them been the studio standard for a long time.)

    I could never see the point of dedicated SACD players, although I owned a couple out of curiosity (Sony and Denon, can't remember the model numbers). Why? Because with a proper DAC like my Audio Note, redbook actually sounded better than SACD through your average SACD player ouput stage. I think redbook, done properly (that is, with due attention paid to the output stage, just as much as to the digital side) can sound amazing. SACD likewise ... but nothing I've heard really made the effort so build a separate setup seem worthwhile.

    My AN DAC can do 24/96 (I've had some fun with the hi-res version of Qobuz) but the quality of the musical experience seems to me to be completely decoupled from the resolution or bit rate. The quality of the performance and its recording and mastering is far, far, far more important than the resolution of the media it's recorded to.

    Anyway FWIW in my view it's a 'nearly' format, killed off ironically by shitty low res MP3s as the great unwashed moved to listening to Britney and Beyonce on their iPods, rather than spending money as they were supposed to on a 'better' digital format.

    Sony might see a new lease of life if they allowed direct DSD digital output from a new generation of SACD transports (their refusal to do this all but guaranteed SACD's irrelevance in the world of hi-res DACs and streaming) but I suspect it's too late now regardless. A curiosity, a dead end, a nearly idea with a few diehard fans, like Betamax and Laserdisk. Close but no cigar.
    Not tried this yet but the Sony HAPZ1 had a recent software/operational tweak which makes the USB a digital out now, and as the HAP plays DSD and can convert files to DSD (also comes with DSD sample tracks) I plan on trying it with a DAC I have that is DSD compatible. If this works then that is a step forward.

    Esoteric equipment has two DSD output options Firewire and twin XLR outputs, both sound excellent.
    Regards Neil

    System 1: AMG Giro turntable, AMG 9W2 tonearm, Air Tight PC3 cartridge, Passlabs Xono phonostage, AMG Reference armcable. Accuphase DP57 CD player, Marantz SA7 SACD player, Sony HAP Z1es Digital File Player + Audioquest Jitter Bug, Veracity Mystra DAC + Dell Laptop + iFi i power + JKenny JKSPIDIF, Wireworld Starlight USB + Audioquest Jitter Bug, for computer audio, Audio Valve RKV2 headphone amp, headphones Grado GS 1000, Balanced Audio Technology VK300se integrated amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers. Cabling: Signal - Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, Atlas Mavros, Speaker - QED Genesis Silver Spiral. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, TCI. Mark Grant distribution blocks, Equipment tables Target Audio B series.

    System 2: Loricraft Garrard 401 turntable + SME 5 tonearm + VDH MC10 cartridge + Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Modified Technics 1200 turntable + Triplannar 7 tonearm + VDH Frog Gold cartridge + Paul Hynes SR7 PSU, SME Model 20 turntable + Graham Phantom tonearm + Ortofon MC5200 cartridge + Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Balanced Audio Technology VK10se phonostage, Moon Andromeda CD player, Esoteric P5 SACD transport and P 5 DAC, Toshiba 9500 DVD Audio player, AMR DP777 DAC + HP laptop + iFi i power + Wireworld Starlight USB - for computer audio, Kenwood 8300 tuner, Revox B760 tuner, Magnum Dynalab signal sleuth, Leak Troughline tuner + EAR Stereo decoder, Revox B77 mk 2 & Revox A77 mk3 reel to reel recorders, Balanced Audio Technology VK52se pre-amplifier, Music Reference RM200 mk1 power-amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5 speakers. Cabling: Signal/Speaker - Atlas Mavros. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, TCI. Mains distribution blocks Mark Grant and Russ Andrews, Equipment tables Clear Light Audio.

  10. #30
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Belfast/Northern Ireland/UK

    Posts: 16,595
    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    I think I had an SA7 at one point Neil,
    Found its sonic presentation quite bland, and uninteresting to be honest, not realy sure what it was that gave it that character, even tried it at a friends in his system, same character, Its long gone now.
    A...
    I respect your listening experience but don't agree.
    Regards Neil

    System 1: AMG Giro turntable, AMG 9W2 tonearm, Air Tight PC3 cartridge, Passlabs Xono phonostage, AMG Reference armcable. Accuphase DP57 CD player, Marantz SA7 SACD player, Sony HAP Z1es Digital File Player + Audioquest Jitter Bug, Veracity Mystra DAC + Dell Laptop + iFi i power + JKenny JKSPIDIF, Wireworld Starlight USB + Audioquest Jitter Bug, for computer audio, Audio Valve RKV2 headphone amp, headphones Grado GS 1000, Balanced Audio Technology VK300se integrated amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers. Cabling: Signal - Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, Atlas Mavros, Speaker - QED Genesis Silver Spiral. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, TCI. Mark Grant distribution blocks, Equipment tables Target Audio B series.

    System 2: Loricraft Garrard 401 turntable + SME 5 tonearm + VDH MC10 cartridge + Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Modified Technics 1200 turntable + Triplannar 7 tonearm + VDH Frog Gold cartridge + Paul Hynes SR7 PSU, SME Model 20 turntable + Graham Phantom tonearm + Ortofon MC5200 cartridge + Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Balanced Audio Technology VK10se phonostage, Moon Andromeda CD player, Esoteric P5 SACD transport and P 5 DAC, Toshiba 9500 DVD Audio player, AMR DP777 DAC + HP laptop + iFi i power + Wireworld Starlight USB - for computer audio, Kenwood 8300 tuner, Revox B760 tuner, Magnum Dynalab signal sleuth, Leak Troughline tuner + EAR Stereo decoder, Revox B77 mk 2 & Revox A77 mk3 reel to reel recorders, Balanced Audio Technology VK52se pre-amplifier, Music Reference RM200 mk1 power-amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5 speakers. Cabling: Signal/Speaker - Atlas Mavros. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, TCI. Mains distribution blocks Mark Grant and Russ Andrews, Equipment tables Clear Light Audio.

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