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Thread: SACD, how do you REALLY feel about it?

  1. #21
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 3,098
    I'm Tom.

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    I never got into SACD although I guess in the world of streaming the hi-res masters it spawned will no doubt not be wasted. (Though I suspect there are hi-res digital masters of almost everything produced in the last 20 years ... 24/96 and subsequently 24/192 have between them been the studio standard for a long time.)

    I could never see the point of dedicated SACD players, although I owned a couple out of curiosity (Sony and Denon, can't remember the model numbers). Why? Because with a proper DAC like my Audio Note, redbook actually sounded better than SACD through your average SACD player ouput stage. I think redbook, done properly (that is, with due attention paid to the output stage, just as much as to the digital side) can sound amazing. SACD likewise ... but nothing I've heard really made the effort so build a separate setup seem worthwhile.

    My AN DAC can do 24/96 (I've had some fun with the hi-res version of Qobuz) but the quality of the musical experience seems to me to be completely decoupled from the resolution or bit rate. The quality of the performance and its recording and mastering is far, far, far more important than the resolution of the media it's recorded to.

    Anyway FWIW in my view it's a 'nearly' format, killed off ironically by shitty low res MP3s as the great unwashed moved to listening to Britney and Beyonce on their iPods, rather than spending money as they were supposed to on a 'better' digital format.

    Sony might see a new lease of life if they allowed direct DSD digital output from a new generation of SACD transports (their refusal to do this all but guaranteed SACD's irrelevance in the world of hi-res DACs and streaming) but I suspect it's too late now regardless. A curiosity, a dead end, a nearly idea with a few diehard fans, like Betamax and Laserdisk. Close but no cigar.
    Main: Speakers 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys / custom crossovers; Amp - Radford STA100; Pre EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII + Ikeda IT345-CR1 / Ikeda IT-407 tonearms; Cartridges Stereo - Miyajima Madake, Ortofon SPU Royal N, Ikeda 9C III, SAEC/Excel C3; Mono - Miyajimas - Zero 0.7, Premium 1.0, Sonovox MC-4 1.0, Edison '78' 4.0 conical, and Shure M44 strapped for mono with several Expert Stylus conicals for different eras of 78s; Phono stage and SUT from EAR 912; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78, switchable in from tape loop; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport, heavily modded AN Kit DAC + Mutec MC3+USB.

    Study: Speakers - Tannoy DC6; Amp: Pass Aleph 'Mini'; preamp - Firebottle custom; Vinyl: Garrard 401 with AT1503 tonearm and vintage Ortofon SL-15e with matching Ortofon 2-15k SUT; Phono Stage: Firebottle Plus; Digital - Trichord Genesis III CDP + Arcam rBlink; Schiit Multibit DAC.

  2. #22
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 869
    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    I think redbook, done properly (that is, with due attention paid to the output stage, just as much as to the digital side) can sound amazing......The quality of the performance and its recording and mastering is far, far, far more important than the resolution of the media it's recorded to
    +1 Tom, when redbook is delivered properly I can't see what more is to be gained!
    "lack of passion is fatal"
    Gerrard 401, classic hifi hammertone, Russ Collinson plinth / Tenuto Gun Metal Turntable Mat / SME 3012 J7 Rewired / audio-technica ATP-12T - phonomac modified / Ortofon Vintage SPU GE /Shure M3D /DV XX2Mk2 / The Cartridge Man Music Master with isolator / Miyajima Zero B 0.7mil Mono / Vintage GE VRII Mono / WAD 300b Power modded, TJ Mesh Plate Valves / David Coe AD Audio 'Satchmo' Pre & Phono / Hashimoto HM-7 SUT / Tannoy 12" MGs in RFC Custom Rutland Cabinets with RFC Custom Crossovers / Speaker Cables: Duelund DCA16GA Tinned Copper / SW1X Audio Design USB-SPdif / SW1X Audio Design DAC 1 Signature / Interconnects: Duelund DCA20GA home brew /SW1X Audio SPDIF AERO 6 / Synology NAS Drive / Roon / Tidal HiFi / Mains Power Conditioner

  3. #23
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: Melksham, Wiltshire

    Posts: 493
    I'm Peter.

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    Isnít that the whole point of this forum!!! We like what we like !!!!!

    What you guys like, is not necessarily my taste. Par say!!!!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  4. #24
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: Melksham, Wiltshire

    Posts: 493
    I'm Peter.

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    I sometimes wish I could express myself better..... when you pay £10k + for a SACD you expect the Earth and more.. For me, it didnít do it (My mistake) just trying to explain the pit falls.

    However, if no one is listening.... Hay ho.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  5. #25
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 869
    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    I sometimes wish I could express myself better..... when you pay £10k + for a SACD you expect the Earth and more.. For me, it didn’t do it (My mistake) just trying to explain the pit falls.

    However, if no one is listening.... Hay ho.
    Peter, I'm sure people are listening and your findings and views are valid.
    "lack of passion is fatal"
    Gerrard 401, classic hifi hammertone, Russ Collinson plinth / Tenuto Gun Metal Turntable Mat / SME 3012 J7 Rewired / audio-technica ATP-12T - phonomac modified / Ortofon Vintage SPU GE /Shure M3D /DV XX2Mk2 / The Cartridge Man Music Master with isolator / Miyajima Zero B 0.7mil Mono / Vintage GE VRII Mono / WAD 300b Power modded, TJ Mesh Plate Valves / David Coe AD Audio 'Satchmo' Pre & Phono / Hashimoto HM-7 SUT / Tannoy 12" MGs in RFC Custom Rutland Cabinets with RFC Custom Crossovers / Speaker Cables: Duelund DCA16GA Tinned Copper / SW1X Audio Design USB-SPdif / SW1X Audio Design DAC 1 Signature / Interconnects: Duelund DCA20GA home brew /SW1X Audio SPDIF AERO 6 / Synology NAS Drive / Roon / Tidal HiFi / Mains Power Conditioner

  6. #26
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 6,696
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Exactly, we can only share our own personal experiences, which can be taken with a pinch of salt in many cases, However; sometimes there is a common theme that the majority will experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    Isn’t that the whole point of this forum!!! We like what we like !!!!!

    What you guys like, is not necessarily my taste. Par say!!!!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    We Send our kids to school to be Educated, not Medicated!

  7. #27
    Join Date: Jan 2014

    Location: County Durham, England

    Posts: 554
    I'm Malcolm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    I sometimes wish I could express myself better..... when you pay £10k + for a SACD you expect the Earth and more.. For me, it didn’t do it (My mistake) just trying to explain the pit falls.

    However, if no one is listening.... Hay ho.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I think we are listening - and with these things it's a case of each to his own to a great degree. I'd say your experience is relevant, and anyone auditioning a megabucks SACD player (or at any level) should do so with these things in mind. Certainly, the idea that there's lots of mileage in redbook standard 16/44 (whether from CD, FLAC, ALAC, WAV, stored or streamed) is powerful.

    Technics SL1210 MkII / SME 309 / Timestep PSU / Achromat / Denon DL-304
    Phono stage TBC
    Lossless / MP3 / Tidal > Roon > Raspberry Pi > Meridian Explorer 2
    Marantz UD7007 SACD/Blu-ray/DVD-V/DVD-A
    Toshiba BDX1200 Blu-ray player (Zone A & Region 1)
    Meridian 502 pre-amp for stereo sources
    Stereo power amp TBC
    Yamaha RX-V1067 for centre, surrounds
    B&W 804S stereo, HTM4S centre, CDMSNT surrounds (5.0)
    Sennheiser HD 700 headphones
    Panasonic PT-AT6000 projector

  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Forest of Dean, Glos

    Posts: 10,008
    I'm Jerry.

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    Yep, I have a pretty good system imo, and I am a discerning listener, once again imo! - and Red Book standard or near equivalent is just fine and dandy as far as I am concerned.
    Jerry

    Qobuz Hifi / Spotify Premium streaming, XiangSheng DAC-01A or Topping D30 DAC with lpsu, Herron VTSP-2 valve preamp, Trigon TRE 50M monoblocks, MBL 116F speakers.

    Cables: Wireworld Starlight USB, Ixos Ixotica i/c, W&M speaker cables, Belden 19364 mains cables

  9. #29
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Belfast/Northern Ireland/UK

    Posts: 17,191
    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    I never got into SACD although I guess in the world of streaming the hi-res masters it spawned will no doubt not be wasted. (Though I suspect there are hi-res digital masters of almost everything produced in the last 20 years ... 24/96 and subsequently 24/192 have between them been the studio standard for a long time.)

    I could never see the point of dedicated SACD players, although I owned a couple out of curiosity (Sony and Denon, can't remember the model numbers). Why? Because with a proper DAC like my Audio Note, redbook actually sounded better than SACD through your average SACD player ouput stage. I think redbook, done properly (that is, with due attention paid to the output stage, just as much as to the digital side) can sound amazing. SACD likewise ... but nothing I've heard really made the effort so build a separate setup seem worthwhile.

    My AN DAC can do 24/96 (I've had some fun with the hi-res version of Qobuz) but the quality of the musical experience seems to me to be completely decoupled from the resolution or bit rate. The quality of the performance and its recording and mastering is far, far, far more important than the resolution of the media it's recorded to.

    Anyway FWIW in my view it's a 'nearly' format, killed off ironically by shitty low res MP3s as the great unwashed moved to listening to Britney and Beyonce on their iPods, rather than spending money as they were supposed to on a 'better' digital format.

    Sony might see a new lease of life if they allowed direct DSD digital output from a new generation of SACD transports (their refusal to do this all but guaranteed SACD's irrelevance in the world of hi-res DACs and streaming) but I suspect it's too late now regardless. A curiosity, a dead end, a nearly idea with a few diehard fans, like Betamax and Laserdisk. Close but no cigar.
    Not tried this yet but the Sony HAPZ1 had a recent software/operational tweak which makes the USB a digital out now, and as the HAP plays DSD and can convert files to DSD (also comes with DSD sample tracks) I plan on trying it with a DAC I have that is DSD compatible. If this works then that is a step forward.

    Esoteric equipment has two DSD output options Firewire and twin XLR outputs, both sound excellent.
    Regards Neil

    System 1 (Living Room) : AMG Giro turntable, AMG 9W2 tonearm, Air Tight PC3 cartridge, Passlabs Xono phonostage, AMG Reference armcable. Marantz CD7 CD player, Sony HAP Z1es Digital File Player + Audioquest Jitter Bug, Veracity Audio Mystra DAC + HP laptop + iFi Audio i power, Wireworld Starlight USB + Audioquest Jitter Bug, for computer audio, Audio Valve RKV2 headphone amp, headphones Grado GS 1000, Nakamichi CR5e tape deck, Balanced Audio Technology VK300se integrated amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers. Cabling: Signal - Atlas Mavros, Audience AU24, Speaker - Atlas Mavros. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, TCI. Mark Grant distribution blocks, Equipment tables Target Audio B series.

    System 2 (Music Room) : Loricraft Garrard 401 turntable + SME 5 tonearm + VDH MC10 cartridge + Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Modified Technics 1200 turntable + Triplannar 7 tonearm + VDH Frog Gold cartridge + Paul Hynes SR7 PSU, SME Model 20 turntable + Graham Phantom tonearm + Ortofon MC5200 cartridge + Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Balanced Audio Technology VK10se phonostage, Moon Andromeda CD player, Esoteric P5 SACD transport and P 5 DAC, Toshiba 9500 DVD Audio player, AMR DP777 DAC + Dell Laptop + iFi Audio i power + JKenny JKSPIDIF + Wireworld Starlight USB - for computer audio, Kenwood 8300 tuner, Revox B760 tuner, Magnum Dynalab signal sleuth, Leak Troughline tuner + EAR Stereo decoder, Revox B77 mk 2 & Revox A77 mk3 reel to reel recorders, Balanced Audio Technology VK52se pre-amplifier, Music Reference RM200 mk1 power-amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5 speakers. Cabling: Signal/Speaker - Audience AU24, XLO Type6. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, TCI. Mains distribution blocks Mark Grant and Russ Andrews, Equipment tables Clear Light Audio.

  10. #30
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Belfast/Northern Ireland/UK

    Posts: 17,191
    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    I think I had an SA7 at one point Neil,
    Found its sonic presentation quite bland, and uninteresting to be honest, not realy sure what it was that gave it that character, even tried it at a friends in his system, same character, Its long gone now.
    A...
    I respect your listening experience but don't agree.
    Regards Neil

    System 1 (Living Room) : AMG Giro turntable, AMG 9W2 tonearm, Air Tight PC3 cartridge, Passlabs Xono phonostage, AMG Reference armcable. Marantz CD7 CD player, Sony HAP Z1es Digital File Player + Audioquest Jitter Bug, Veracity Audio Mystra DAC + HP laptop + iFi Audio i power, Wireworld Starlight USB + Audioquest Jitter Bug, for computer audio, Audio Valve RKV2 headphone amp, headphones Grado GS 1000, Nakamichi CR5e tape deck, Balanced Audio Technology VK300se integrated amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers. Cabling: Signal - Atlas Mavros, Audience AU24, Speaker - Atlas Mavros. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, TCI. Mark Grant distribution blocks, Equipment tables Target Audio B series.

    System 2 (Music Room) : Loricraft Garrard 401 turntable + SME 5 tonearm + VDH MC10 cartridge + Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Modified Technics 1200 turntable + Triplannar 7 tonearm + VDH Frog Gold cartridge + Paul Hynes SR7 PSU, SME Model 20 turntable + Graham Phantom tonearm + Ortofon MC5200 cartridge + Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Balanced Audio Technology VK10se phonostage, Moon Andromeda CD player, Esoteric P5 SACD transport and P 5 DAC, Toshiba 9500 DVD Audio player, AMR DP777 DAC + Dell Laptop + iFi Audio i power + JKenny JKSPIDIF + Wireworld Starlight USB - for computer audio, Kenwood 8300 tuner, Revox B760 tuner, Magnum Dynalab signal sleuth, Leak Troughline tuner + EAR Stereo decoder, Revox B77 mk 2 & Revox A77 mk3 reel to reel recorders, Balanced Audio Technology VK52se pre-amplifier, Music Reference RM200 mk1 power-amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5 speakers. Cabling: Signal/Speaker - Audience AU24, XLO Type6. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, TCI. Mains distribution blocks Mark Grant and Russ Andrews, Equipment tables Clear Light Audio.

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