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Thread: Denon 103r - is it worth the aggro?

  1. #101
    Join Date: Jul 2011

    Location: Northamptonshire

    Posts: 1,914
    I'm Peter.

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    Agree with all the comments about the 103, and how to use it. My day-to-day cartridge is a 103R, which is in a 20 gram headshell on a very heavy stainless steel arm (FR-64S) ... the heaviness being essential to getting it to work effectively ime. TBH, I wouldn't bother trying it with light/medium mass arms, as that's not what it's designed for.

    Here's someone who is playing around with a 103 ... http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=12537
    Quote .. "The stock Denon DL-103 has a somewhat tipped-up top-end and a slightly emasculated & unresolved bass response". Makes me wonder if he's ever had one set up properly!

    In terms of cartridges for 'normal' arms, I'd seriously consider a moving magnet Audio Note IQ1. It has much the 'body' of something like the103, combined with a good dose of the detail retrieval that better mc's give. It retails for around £340 now. I much preferred it to an AT-33PTG/II, which I found a bit 'insubstantial' in its presentation.

  2. #102
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Hi Peter,

    Quote Originally Posted by petrat View Post
    Agree with all the comments about the 103, and how to use it. My day-to-day cartridge is a 103R, which is in a 20 gram headshell on a very heavy stainless steel arm (FR-64S) ... the heaviness being essential to getting it to work effectively ime. TBH, I wouldn't bother trying it with light/medium mass arms, as that's not what it's designed for.
    Just for the sake of accuracy, I should point out that the DL-103 was originally designed for use on Denon's own 12" broadcast arms (such as the DA-303, shown below), the required mass achieved by their overall effective length, and which featured headshells weighing no more than 8g.



    I have that very headshell. Wish I had the arm to match though, and the right turntable to put it on! It's the arm I'd fit to the likes of an SP10, for that true 'beefy' broadcast sound...!

    Therefore, when most of us are using 103s on 9" arms, what we need to do is make up for that loss in mass (over a 12" arm), in the headshell used, and also the general design of the partnering arm itself, which is why things such as FR64s work so well. However, you can also overdo the mass, if you use a high-mass headshell on a 12" arm, in which case a 103 will sound rather 'phat' and bloated...

    As ever in audio, it's about getting the balance right - and the 'mass factor' with 103s is crucial!

    Here's someone who is playing around with a 103 ... http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=12537
    Quote .. "The stock Denon DL-103 has a somewhat tipped-up top-end and a slightly emasculated & unresolved bass response". Makes me wonder if he's ever had one set up properly!
    Lol... Complete nonsense, providing it is partnered and set up properly. I'll read the rest of the article later.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  3. #103
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex

    Posts: 7,087
    I'm Dave.

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    IMO, one of the very best arms for MC cartridges especially, is the FR-64S. Sounds wonderful with the Denon.

  4. #104
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Agreed, Dave. It's just an all-round very well engineered arm, and most MC carts like a bit of mass, anyway

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  5. #105
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: Berks

    Posts: 8
    I'm Harv.

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    Looking at the price range and the description of 'sound' have you considered the Hana SL? THe EL is more in the Denon 103 mould of phat

  6. #106
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by A1000 View Post
    Looking at the price range and the description of 'sound' have you considered the Hana SL? THe EL is more in the Denon 103 mould of phat
    I haven't. I read the frequency range and decided it wouldn't be as transparent as maybe the AT33PTGII. Its not an exact science, I know.

    There is a Goldring Eroica on the way for me to try and there's an Ortofon Vienna due on Tuesday. If none suit, I'll give a Hana a run.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  7. #107
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Or a Shelter? Maybe.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  8. #108
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    I haven't. I read the frequency range and decided it wouldn't be as transparent as maybe the AT33PTGII.
    Oh dear, Oliver, a fatal way to judge how a cartridge sounds!

    "Transparent"? What about musical sounding? Honestly, you guys and your measurements!!

    Seconded on the Hana, btw

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #109
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: belgrade serbia

    Posts: 840
    I'm gordan.

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    Marco pointed to the best way to get everything 103 can give - Denon 12" tonearms. I haven't heard 103 before I heard it in DA-308 which is a later model built along the same principles as DA-303, just with better engineering. Whoever likes 103 and sticks with it, should try to find one, those arms are not that costly as Fidelity Research tonearms.
    Gordan.
    Speakers: Oris Swing MkII
    Amps: Thomas Mayer 300b/ Hiraga La Maison de L'Audiophile 20
    Preamp: Silver AVC by eng. Ferenc Lazar
    Phono Preamp: Shishido LCR by Solaja Audio
    Decks: Garrard 301 Martin Bastin reworked/plinthed with Fidelity Research FR64fx
    Garrard 401 in eng Ferenc Lazar solid wenge plinth with SME 3012/2
    Cartridges: SPU Spirit/ Koetsu Black revisited by eng. Salai/ Miyajima Shilabe
    Step Up Transformers: Tango MCT 999/ Ortofon T-5000/ Lumiere SUT
    Digital: Shigaclone by eng. Ferenc Lazar with Lampizator Amber II
    Wires: of sufficient length

  10. #110
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anubisgrau View Post
    Marco pointed to the best way to get everything 103 can give - Denon 12" tonearms. I haven't heard 103 before I heard it in DA-308 which is a later model built along the same principles as DA-303, just with better engineering. Whoever likes 103 and sticks with it, should try to find one, those arms are not that costly as Fidelity Research tonearms.
    Hi Gordan,

    I realise that English isn't your first language, but the bit in bold above is confusing... Have you heard a 103 or not? And if not, how do you know how good a DA-308 or DA-303 tonearm is with it?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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