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Thread: Anyone use solid state for the bass and valve for mid and treble

  1. #31
    Join Date: Oct 2012

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    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    Works extremely well to my ears.
    +1, exceedingly good.

  2. #32
    RothwellAudio Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaGT View Post
    I’ve seen some multi amped speakers in the past, I can’t recall who made them, but I remember they used a digital crossover made for PA systems, a DBX or Behringer digital crossover to balance their tri-powered speakers. Between the preamp and amps. And they seem to have had great success. Showing these speakers at Audio shows, in high priced setups.

    Also, there are RCA attenuators made for car audio, for this very purpose. Just resistors I assume?
    No, an attenuator is not just a resistor - it would be hopelessly inaccurate if it was. Even when an attenuator is a well-conceived potential divider it is affected by the source impedance and the load impedance to some extent. The source impedance is usually so low that it isn't an issue but the load impedance can be a nuisance if you need accuracy. It is possible to minimise the effects of the load impedance by making the impedance of the attenuator much lower, but doing that puts an unnecessary load on the source so I don't recommend it. The truth is that without knowing the load impedance that the attenuator will work with (ie the input impedance of the amplifier) it is difficult to get accurate attenuation within 1dB or so. It gets worse the lower the level of attenuation you're aiming for.
    In short, in-line attenuators can work to even out the sensitivity discrepancy between amplifiers, but you can't really rely on the nominal value of the attenuator when you're aiming for accuracey of 2dB or better.

  3. #33
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    Not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, apologies if they have. Perhaps one needs to consider if the two amps are phase inverting or not.
    Spendorman

  4. #34
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

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    Good point Alex.
    And something that would indeed affect the outcome!
    A...
    Quote Originally Posted by spendorman View Post
    Not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, apologies if they have. Perhaps one needs to consider if the two amps are phase inverting or not.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
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  5. #35
    Join Date: Apr 2015

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    I'm Russell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    No, an attenuator is not just a resistor - it would be hopelessly inaccurate if it was. Even when an attenuator is a well-conceived potential divider it is affected by the source impedance and the load impedance to some extent. The source impedance is usually so low that it isn't an issue but the load impedance can be a nuisance if you need accuracy. It is possible to minimise the effects of the load impedance by making the impedance of the attenuator much lower, but doing that puts an unnecessary load on the source so I don't recommend it. The truth is that without knowing the load impedance that the attenuator will work with (ie the input impedance of the amplifier) it is difficult to get accurate attenuation within 1dB or so. It gets worse the lower the level of attenuation you're aiming for.
    In short, in-line attenuators can work to even out the sensitivity discrepancy between amplifiers, but you can't really rely on the nominal value of the attenuator when you're aiming for accuracey of 2dB or better.
    I understand what you’re saying. I guess the only way to make these inline attenuators work would be to have a wide selection, and use trial and error to find the one that works best? Even if it’s just car audio, it’s still it’s hit and miss. An active crossover is the best option.


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  6. #36
    RothwellAudio Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaGT View Post
    I understand what you’re saying. I guess the only way to make these inline attenuators work would be to have a wide selection, and use trial and error to find the one that works best?
    No, there's another option - contact me and I'll make some custom attenuators to do the job properly. However, the attenuators will only give the specified level of attenuation when used with the amp they're designed for (or one with the same input impedance).

  7. #37
    Join Date: Apr 2015

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    No, there's another option - contact me and I'll make some custom attenuators to do the job properly. However, the attenuators will only give the specified level of attenuation when used with the amp they're designed for (or one with the same input impedance).
    Yes that would be the best option of all! A custom made circuit to balance the speaker’s output. But, wouldn’t that require you to be there, in person, to get the measurements needed to build it?


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  8. #38
    RothwellAudio Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaGT View Post
    Yes that would be the best option of all! A custom made circuit to balance the speaker’s output. But, wouldn’t that require you to be there, in person, to get the measurements needed to build it?
    Given accurate figures for the amps' sensitivities and input impedances it's possible to use attenuators to match them. Assuming that the speakers have passive crossovers with elements to match the drivers' sensitivites, all should be fine. However, if you're starting from scratch and using amps with different sensitivities and drivers with different sensitivities then yes, you would have to make measurements to get them to work well together.

  9. #39
    Join Date: Jun 2015

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    I did this quite simply in a previous set up of mine with kef reference model 2s which were a beast to drive in the bass. I used a valve integrated on the mid and treble, it had a pre amp out so I took that into a Nad 370 integrated line input. I could use the volume of the Nad to adjust the bass output, having a second pre in the path had no obvious deleterious affect as it was only going below about 150hz. This was a cheap solution that probably drove the Kefs as well as a very expensive valve or hybrid amp. In fact I found that for some recordings it was useful to adjust the bass output (obvious examples being 80s pop/rock albums with not enough bass, but also a few recordings that had too much).

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  10. #40
    Join Date: Oct 2009

    Location: Birmingham, UK

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    I'm Phil.

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    A big thank you to everyone who has responded with suggestions and advice , my bass speaker crosses over at 200hz so not to bad , the plate amplifiers from hypex and going active on the bass only seems the way to go , i have 3 sets of banana plugs on the drivers so it would be easy to plug
    back in the passive crossover to the bass and compare with the active crossover . £350 ish 200w rms into 8 ohm , out of stock at the moment so i cant pull the trigger at the moment , me phil.
    Phil.

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