Amp to match my Tannoys ?

[Marco]

My approach is to list equipments which measure well, and then choose which sounds the best, and this is the final arbiter.

Fair enough, but you see that's where we fundamentally differ. I couldn't give a monkey's trunkies how anything measures. That's not my concern; it's the concern of the designer who made it. I just want something that sounds good to my ears and makes believable sounding music, not that conforms to some notional concept of 'correctness'.

Therefore, I compile a shortlist of stuff I like, then either make some attempt to listen to what's on the list, before buying it, or take an educated (well-researched) punt on it regardless. Either way, stuff gets judged by being listened to, not measured.

I can honestly say that in nearly 35 years of being into hi-fi, not ONE single system I've owned or assembled was selected on the basis of measurements - and I've made very few mistakes in that time, simply by trusting my ears!

Marco.

[montesquieu]

I would never pick anything on measurements alone - but it’s amazing that how often it turns out that something that measures badly ends up sounding rubbish at worse, or patchy at best.

You can get stuff that measures well but sounds rubbish ... often though you find this is because it’s mismatched in some way.

Definitely not the be all and end all, but measurements are incredibly useful. ‘Faith based’ design irritates me far more than a focus on flat response or wide bandwidth.


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[Marco]

I would never pick anything on measurements alone - but it’s amazing that how often it turns out that something that measures badly ends up sounding rubbish at worse, or patchy at best.

Yes, I'm also a big believer in if something measures really badly, in critical areas, then it will almost certainly sound crap! But, I'd still need to listen to it first, just to make sure. And if it (somehow) still sounded great to my ears, I wouldn't give a toss about the measurements. That's never happened so far, though.

You can get stuff that measures well but sounds rubbish ... often though you find this is because it’s mismatched in some way.

Yup, *or* in the quest for it to measure well in certain areas, some information in recordings, which currently produced test apparatus can't measure for, gets lost in the process, consequently making music reproduced by the equipment concerned sound bland and 'flat' (as in lifeless).

I've heard lots of solid-state equipment like that, which on paper is a measurist's wet dream, yet sounds musically bereft. You can just tell that it's been 'born' from the readouts on test equipment, rather than *ultimately* from the decisions made by a discerning pair of experienced ears...

Definitely not the be all and end all, but measurements are incredibly useful. ‘Faith based’ design irritates me far more than a focus on flat response or wide bandwidth.

Yes, useful if they're relevant and you understand them, otherwise (as I mentioned earlier) they can be rather less than useful. No idea what a "faith based design" is. Perhaps you could name an example of such?

Marco.

[montesquieu]

No idea what a "faith based design" is. Perhaps you could name an example of such?

Quite a few doing the rounds maybe we could have a thread to list them all. They all take a shallow observation and generalise the bollocks out of it.

- Push pull amp design somehow 'interrupting the flow' so single ended as a rule sounds better. Ditto Class A.

- Feedback being the enemy of musicality - therefore lets have amps with no negative feedback (and to hell with the consequences for gain, output impedance, bass control etc etc)

- Silver wire - nuff said.

- (Popular 80s one this) The best way to avoid record damage is to have highest possible compliance/lowest possible tracking weight. (Resulting in far too many damaged LPs as stylii mistracked because they were set up too light).

- The list of digital bollocks is endless mainly because its principles are so poorly understood, for example I personally have a DAC without up sampling or a brick wall filter but that's because I like the sound of it, to say this is the only way to get good digital sound is nonsense.

This is only scratching the surface. I'm sure loads more could be added. By all means start with an approach or a principle and see where you get to but to build an aura of mystique around such approaches really irritates me.

[walpurgis]

Push pull amp design somehow 'interrupting the flow' so single ended as a rule sounds better

Audio signals are 'push pull' anyway. Otherwise we'd be trying to listen to DC!

[Marco]

Quite a few doing the rounds maybe we could have a thread to list them all. They all take a shallow observation and generalise the bollocks out of it.

- Push pull amp design somehow 'interrupting the flow' so single ended as a rule sounds better. Ditto Class A.

- Feedback being the enemy of musicality - therefore lets have amps with no negative feedback (and to hell with the consequences for gain, output impedance, bass control etc etc)

- Silver wire - nuff said.

- (Popular 80s one this) The best way to avoid record damage is to have highest possible compliance/lowest possible tracking weight. (Resulting in far too many damaged LPs as stylii mistracked because they were set up too light).

- The list of digital bollocks is endless mainly because its principles are so poorly understood, for example I personally have a DAC without up sampling or a brick wall filter but that's because I like the sound of it, to say this is the only way to get good digital sound is nonsense.

This is only scratching the surface. I'm sure loads more could be added. By all means start with an approach or a principle and see where you get to but to build an aura of mystique around such approaches really irritates me.

Ah, I see what you mean now, all of which I agree with. However, they're simply principles, not designs. I thought you were going to name actual pieces of equipment, designed on "faith"

The most important fact to get sunk into your head in hi-fi, is that NOTHING is perfect [and that there is no 'best' anything], so there will always be some form of compromise needed.

Therefore, this game is essentially all about choosing your compromises, not attempting to create some false notion of 'perfection' (based on measurements or otherwise), as it simply doesn't exist!

Marco.

[walpurgis]

I had a phone chat with my mate (who really ought to be a member here ) earlier.

He has Tannoy Chatsworth's with Monitor Golds and normally uses an EAR 861 or Monarchy Audio SM-70 Pro to drive them. Today he took delivery of a Creek Destiny 2 integrated and he advises me that (unsurprisingly) it sounds absolutely marvellous with the Chatsworths.

It's an amp I've been wanting to try myself for some time. Sooner or later, the right one will come my way.

A further message from my buddy today.

He is certainly enjoying the Creek Destiny 2 with his Tannoys.

[struth]

You've had a desire for one of those

[walpurgis]

You've had a desire for one of those

Yes, but finding one in black is tricky (and the dosh to pay for it).

[Pharos]

Tom's list of 'wrong and generalised conceptions' reminds me of other examples from my career.

"Tubing is stronger than rod" was one, and it is true that for a GIVEN AMOUNT OF MATERIAL PER UNIT LENGTH this applies.
But it has been taken to mean something else, which was almost saying that if you get a rod and drill it centrally, it becomes stronger. in other words removing material makes it stronger. (Ha Ha).

The other one that comes to mind is "Hot water freezes more quickly than cold water".
It is true that hot water LOSES HEAT MORE QUICLY THAN COLD WATER, and this may be written loosely as it freezing more quickly than cold water, but it does not actually become frozen more quickly.

Both water samples at some point in time drop in temperature to a given temperature point, and from that point on they both take the same time to freeze if the conditions are equal.

So unthoroughly understood ideas can abound and become 'folk lore', and also be completely wrong, and I think many Hi-Fi sales people perpetuate some.