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Thread: This crazy world of witch hunts...

  1. #1
    Join Date: Dec 2015

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    I'm Adrian.

    Default This crazy world of witch hunts...

    So the minister for defense has resigned over making a pass at a journalist and touching her knee. This it seems is sexual assault. WTF. What we don't know is how the woman concerned was behaving, but being a journalist after a story no doubt she was being very nice and perhaps flirtatious and so messages could quite easily get mixed. He got the wrong message, made an awkward pass and touched (oh my god) her knee. For this his life has been destroyed.

    I'm a gay man. I see both sides equally. But this is pathetic. There's a huge difference between getting gang raped in a field, or having your tits groped by someone on a train and a man making a clumsy pass. A huge number of relationships begin this way.

    He tried it on, she said no. End of story. But it's not - now his life is in shreds. Holy crap.
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  2. #2
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Belfast/Northern Ireland/UK

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    I'm Neil.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    So the minister for defense has resigned over making a pass at a journalist and touching her knee. This it seems is sexual assault. WTF. What we don't know is how the woman concerned was behaving, but being a journalist after a story no doubt she was being very nice and perhaps flirtatious and so messages could quite easily get mixed. He got the wrong message, made an awkward pass and touched (oh my god) her knee. For this his life has been destroyed.

    I'm a gay man. I see both sides equally. But this is pathetic. There's a huge difference between getting gang raped in a field, or having your tits groped by someone on a train and a man making a clumsy pass. A huge number of relationships begin this way.

    He tried it on, she said no. End of story. But it's not - now his life is in shreds. Holy crap.
    Firstly Adrian try posting in the right place Secondly are you for real ? You don't ever touch anyone ever without consent ever. Doing so is a violation of consent. And touching someone in a sexual way, groping bum, touching leg, breast, crotch, male or female, done by either male or female is sexual assault.

    Plus victim blaming much, the lady didn't ask to be touched or come on to

    I suspect he hasn't resigned over that, but something else.
    Regards Neil

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  3. #3
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

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    I'm Adrian.

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    I thought I put it in Blank canvas - is that wrong?

    My point was men and women make stupid passes all the time - I've seen it - but to elevate it to a level equal to rape, in my opinion, is ridiculous.

    People have touched my knee and made it obvious they were making a pass. I didn't make a complaint of sexual assault - I put it down to the person being an idiot. Things should be kept in proportion. There are some sick individuals out there - to lump everyone in the same category isn't logical.

    I'm a teacher and have had students make very overt offers of sex but I'm not stupid and have never encouraged or done anything I might regret. I don't touch anyone period.

    But an idiot making a pass is not a rapist.
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  4. #4
    Join Date: Nov 2008

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    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    I thought I put it in Blank canvas - is that wrong?

    My point was men and women make stupid passes all the time - I've seen it - but to elevate it to a level equal to rape, in my opinion, is ridiculous.

    People have touched my knee and made it obvious they were making a pass. I didn't make a complaint of sexual assault - I put it down to the person being an idiot. Things should be kept in proportion. There are some sick individuals out there - to lump everyone in the same category isn't logical.

    I'm a teacher and have had students make very overt offers of sex but I'm not stupid and have never encouraged or done anything I might regret. I don't touch anyone period.

    But an idiot making a pass is not a rapist.
    Non hifi topics go in Abstract Chat.

    No, but if that pass involves touching, sexually then that is a violation of consent and sexual assault. I suggest you read up on Consent Culture.

    http://onlywithconsent.org/blog/consent-culture

    It is your choice to decide what is ok for you, but beyond that respect that others may not agree and may feel boundaries were crossed and in a negative way. No one can know how or what an other is feeling, how they react so accept that the folks coming forward feel they were violated and are unhappy with what happened to them. I support them and it is not my place to question their feelings about what happened.
    Regards Neil

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  5. #5
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    I'm Grant.

    Default

    Of course we dont really know the context so its difficult to make a comment on it. I dont like people trying to take advantage, especially their position and that happens a lot, but also there has to be scope for an innocent attempt(if clumsy) to get a date etc. It is also true that some folk are overly touchy(pun intended) about being touched, whereas most dont mind too much as long as its not the goodies. The complainant may be one of these or may just be wanting to ake a point, I dont know.
    I do find the way the world is going decidedy sad alas, and glad I wont be around that much longer
    Regards,
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  6. #6
    Join Date: Nov 2008

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    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    Of course we dont really know the context so its difficult to make a comment on it. I dont like people trying to take advantage, especially their position and that happens a lot, but also there has to be scope for an innocent attempt(if clumsy) to get a date etc. It is also true that some folk are overly touchy(pun intended) about being touched, whereas most dont mind too much as long as its not the goodies. The complainant may be one of these or may just be wanting to ake a point, I dont know.
    I do find the way the world is going decidedy sad alas, and glad I wont be around that much longer
    Its pretty simple, you ask, they say no, or yes, that's it. No touching or groping required.
    Regards Neil

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  7. #7
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

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    I'm Adrian.

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    Then if an admin can move it that would be great.

    Yes you're right, you never know how a person might take it.

    But - the construct that women are not sexual beings, capable of the same as men, is a male construct. I've seen my female friends behaviour when out clubbing or when flirting at dinner - just as bad as my male friends, sometimes worse. But say anything to them and they immediately take offence - the construct - a girl who sleeps around is a slut, a man who sleeps around is a king.

    As I say I'm gay - I see both sides. If there is a difference between men and women it's that men are naive and women way more aware.

    If a woman feels violated because a man touches her knee then the context needs to be examined. Only a sicko would go uninvited or under a mistaken delusion and touch anyone.

    When I was 15 my mom, with whom I was very close, asked me for advice. She was thinking of having an affair with her boss (yes she was married). I told her to do whatever felt right. I realised then that my preconceptions of women were not quite right. They were just the same as men, but couldn't be seen to be so.

    I'm sure most guys have touched the shoulder or elbow of a work colleague - without ever thinking of sex. We recently saw what can happen in a sexually repressive state like Saudi Arabia where a guy touched another guys hip in a crowded pub. That is the extreme. Proportion and blame with honesty and context is the best route.
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  8. #8
    Join Date: Mar 2017

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    I'm Edward.

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    Rumour is that Michael Fallon resigned ahead of a new story about him that will appear in a paper tomorrow. Touching Julia Hartley-Brewer's knee at a dinner 15 years ago was not the reason for the resignation - apparently.
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  9. #9
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Belfast/Northern Ireland/UK

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    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    Then if an admin can move it that would be great.

    Yes you're right, you never know how a person might take it.

    But - the construct that women are not sexual beings, capable of the same as men, is a male construct. I've seen my female friends behaviour when out clubbing or when flirting at dinner - just as bad as my male friends, sometimes worse. But say anything to them and they immediately take offence - the construct - a girl who sleeps around is a slut, a man who sleeps around is a king.

    As I say I'm gay - I see both sides. If there is a difference between men and women it's that men are naive and women way more aware.

    If a woman feels violated because a man touches her knee then the context needs to be examined. Only a sicko would go uninvited or under a mistaken delusion and touch anyone.

    When I was 15 my mom, with whom I was very close, asked me for advice. She was thinking of having an affair with her boss (yes she was married). I told her to do whatever felt right. I realised then that my preconceptions of women were not quite right. They were just the same as men, but couldn't be seen to be so.

    I'm sure most guys have touched the shoulder or elbow of a work colleague - without ever thinking of sex. We recently saw what can happen in a sexually repressive state like Saudi Arabia where a guy touched another guys hip in a crowded pub. That is the extreme. Proportion and blame with honesty and context is the best route.
    Already moved.

    I agree that women can behave in as wrong away as men can particularly when drink or drugs are in and the wit is out. Behaviour that makes anyone feel uncomfortable is wrong.

    Sorry the only thing that matters is the persons feelings, by talking about context you seek to remove or reduce that persons feelings about what happened. Of course it is possible that someone who feels violated and that their consent was not sought and a law not be broken, but in the cases coming up in the media all I have heard so far fall under either sexual assault and rape, which are against the law.

    Consent and understanding what it is and how it applies to folks and situations is sadly not that well understood among most people. They just don't think often beyond their own self.
    Regards Neil

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  10. #10
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

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    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L View Post
    Already moved.

    I agree that women can behave in as wrong away as men can particularly when drink or drugs are in and the wit is out. Behaviour that makes anyone feel uncomfortable is wrong.

    Sorry the only thing that matters is the persons feelings, by talking about context you seek to remove or reduce that persons feelings about what happened. Of course it is possible that someone who feels violated and that their consent was not sought and a law not be broken, but in the cases coming up in the media all I have heard so far fall under either sexual assault and rape, which are against the law.

    Consent and understanding what it is and how it applies to folks and situations is sadly not that well understood among most people. They just don't think often beyond their own self.
    But this argument can equally be applied to the journalist, who may well have been flirting wth the politician to get what she wanted. If that context is true she got what she wanted, a story, he didn't. He tried by touching her knee, as sexually arousing as an elbow, and she said no. End of story. Games. Played all the time.
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