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Thread: Sounds a bit shrill-is it my Audion?

  1. #71
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    I don't want to take the thread off course so won't, but it would be interesting to know whether the problem he's suffering is across the board or with albums of a certain era or production.

    I agree about demos at shows - but that's just logic. If the photo earlier in the thread is of the posters listening room I'd pay some attention to room damping.

    The audions are about finesse, as are most sets unless coupled with something like an 845. They don't do heavy rock at realistic levels no matter how efficient the speaker - that's just not their thing.
    My point about the shows is that if the system cannot make sense of all types of music and recordings then it isn't fit for purpose. I'll except people who really do only listen to simple acoustic music, since they do exist, and want something specifically tailored to that sort of music, that plays to its strengths, and I get that.

    But for anything else, especially with the price tag into six figures, if it can't make decent fist of Deep Purple, as well as Bill Evans Trio, then it's just fake hi-fi, not the real thing.

    Regarding the room, if the distortion is coming from the equipment no amount of room treatment will sort the issue. Room treatment and moving the speakers about a bit (or sticking stuff in the ports or over the tweeters) seems to get recommended as a cure for all sorts of woes when it just isn't.
    Current Lash Up:

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  2. #72
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    My point about the shows is that if the system cannot make sense of all types of music and recordings then it isn't fit for purpose. I'll except people who really do only listen to simple acoustic music, since they do exist, and want something specifically tailored to that sort of music, that plays to its strengths, and I get that.

    But for anything else, especially with the price tag into six figures, if it can't make decent fist of Deep Purple, as well as Bill Evans Trio, then it's just fake hi-fi, not the real thing.

    Regarding the room, if the distortion is coming from the equipment no amount of room treatment will sort the issue. Room treatment and moving the speakers about a bit (or sticking stuff in the ports or over the tweeters) seems to get recommended as a cure for all sorts of woes when it just isn't.
    dont really listen to hard rock etc so dont know how well mine does.
    as for his speakers sounding harsh, well some can and do. sometimes moving them or changing the reflections can alther this, as can another type of amp. Trying a buffer can sometimes show up a mismatch as well. Ive seen cd players and dacs cause it too. dare say a poor phono stage could too
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  3. #73
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

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    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    My point about the shows is that if the system cannot make sense of all types of music and recordings then it isn't fit for purpose. I'll except people who really do only listen to simple acoustic music, since they do exist, and want something specifically tailored to that sort of music, that plays to its strengths, and I get that.

    But for anything else, especially with the price tag into six figures, if it can't make decent fist of Deep Purple, as well as Bill Evans Trio, then it's just fake hi-fi, not the real thing.

    Regarding the room, if the distortion is coming from the equipment no amount of room treatment will sort the issue. Room treatment and moving the speakers about a bit (or sticking stuff in the ports or over the tweeters) seems to get recommended as a cure for all sorts of woes when it just isn't.
    I totally agree - I want my hifi to play all genres.

    I thought the problem was the system sounded shouty? This can be attributed in part to room acoustics. Distortion no.
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  4. #74
    RothwellAudio Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    My point about the shows is that if the system cannot make sense of all types of music and recordings then it isn't fit for purpose...
    ...if it can't make decent fist of Deep Purple, as well as Bill Evans Trio, then it's just fake hi-fi, not the real thing.
    I agree entirely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Regarding the room, if the distortion is coming from the equipment no amount of room treatment will sort the issue. Room treatment and moving the speakers about a bit (or sticking stuff in the ports or over the tweeters) seems to get recommended as a cure for all sorts of woes when it just isn't.
    I disagree entirely. Certainly harmonic distortion can't be produced by the room but nasty flutter echoes and resonances can produce an unpleasant listening experience similar to that produced by distortion.

  5. #75
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    I also had a set of cables that did this in spades. took a while to find too.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  6. #76
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,928
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    I agree entirely.

    I disagree entirely. Certainly harmonic distortion can't be produced by the room but nasty flutter echoes and resonances can produce an unpleasant listening experience similar to that produced by distortion.
    When that happens it is pretty obvious it is the room to blame. Our hearing does not struggle to make that differentiation. The room has to be pretty bad before our hearing/brain fails to filter it out.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  7. #77
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    When that happens it is pretty obvious it is the room to blame. Our hearing does not struggle to make that differentiation. The room has to be pretty bad before our hearing/brain fails to filter it out.
    or inexperienced. if u have not really come across both enough to know which is which
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  8. #78
    Join Date: Nov 2013

    Location: Scotland

    Posts: 185
    I'm Michael.

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    I have heard ZU speakers only once, at Audio Counsel at Diggle in the picturesque part of Oldham These were driven by Audion valve amps and I don't remember which ZU model they were but they were very large with twin drivers and super tweeters. I thought the system was fairly ordinary. As far as I know ZU speakers use Eminence Drivers which they say they've modded to their specification. I remember reading a review on ZU speakers by Paul Messenger in the days of measurement. He couldn't find the 98db claimed and his findings were 92db and the frequency response was all over the place. I'm not sure Eminence intend their speakers to be used full range. Often the problem with full range speakers is very small X Max which doesn't help the bass response. The X Max is limited to help the higher frequency response and the efficiency like Lowther speakers. The best sounding fullish range driver I have heard is the latest BMR used by Cambridge Audio in their Aeromax speakers but I don't know how it measures. They run it down to 200HZ and it sounds smooth on top end. I myself would take much convincing to run ZU speakers.

  9. #79
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex

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    I'm Dave.

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    As I said back in post no.6, I did stock Zu for a short time, some years ago and whilst they were fast and fun, they were a bit coarse, edgy and coloured. Couple these to a 300B amp, possibly cranked up too far and you would get the results the OP complains of.

  10. #80
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

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    I'm Steve.

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    Interesting times ahead for me, lots of things to address.

    Firstly though, I'm not saying that I don't like the Audion, just that the sound quality at higher volumes made me think it could be faulty in some way. When I said its fine at low volumes, I probably meant "moderate". High volume to me is when Mrs Pony says things like "you need to get your hearing checked" or "I could hear that from the top of the street". And low volume I what I turn it to when I answer the phone.

    I'm not writing off the Silver Night, in fact I would like to have it serviced/checked. Also I would like to try a better quality mains lead for it. Not sure about room treatments, I can experiment a little, but wouldn't be allowed anything permanent. Already quite a lot of absorbent things like carpets, and a big fabric sofa down one side (picture shown earlier not my room).

    I have to face the real possibility that the speakers are the problem, but the thought of getting rid of these makes me feel a bit ill, so I want to do anything else I can first.

    Maybe if I could find a good quality hearing aid, I could turn that up instead and give system an easier life!

    I should also get out to some shows and bake-offs, (never been to one of those, but they sound like a good opportunity to meet enthusiasts rather than just sales people.

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