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Thread: Sound leakages before the track starts playing

  1. #11
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

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    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    When the record laquer is cut, a heated cutter is used to cut (or 'plough') the groove in the laquer material. In cutting the groove the material is not only cut in depth but the material is 'heaved' laterally to a small extent. Normally the cutting engineer will ensure that the groove spacing is such that a heavily modulated groove will not affect the previous neighbouring groove. But if the previous neighbouring groove is silent, such as the leadin groove to a track, one will hear the effect of the heavily modulated groove.
    But most of my LPs don't exhibit this 'pre-echo' when I let the stylus drop to the lead-in groove. So what's the difference then between those LPs that do and those that don't have this 'pre-echo'?
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  2. #12
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    But most of my LPs don't exhibit this 'pre-echo' when I let the stylus drop to the lead-in groove. So what's the difference then between those LPs that do and those that don't have this 'pre-echo'?
    I can only assume that the majority of your records don't start with a loud chord, or you play your records quietly. The great majority of my LPs do not suffer from pre-echo, but some do and it is definitely audible. You will only hear the pre-echo when the silent groove is one revolution away from the start of the loud-starting track.

    I'll try and find some examples that you might also have.
    Barry

  3. #13
    Join Date: May 2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I can only assume that the majority of your records don't start with a loud chord, or you play your records quietly. The great majority of my LPs do not suffer from pre-echo, but some do and it is definitely audible. You will only hear the pre-echo when the silent groove is one revolution away from the start of the loud-starting track.

    I'll try and find some examples that you might also have.
    Thanks. Some of my LPs with audible pre-echo sound quite loud before the opening salvo, some on the other hand sound quite feeble, barely audible. Is the pre-echo volume a function of how loud is the opening salvo?
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

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  4. #14
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    Thanks. Some of my LPs with audible pre-echo sound quite loud before the opening salvo, some on the other hand sound quite feeble, barely audible. Is the pre-echo volume a function of how loud is the opening salvo?
    Yes.
    Barry

  5. #15
    Join Date: May 2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Yes.
    You made me curious now. I am going to try and find an LP that opens with super loud chord, but the pre-echo is nowhere to be heard. Maybe such LP doesn't exist, but I think I have a faint recollection of hearing a few of those...
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  6. #16
    Join Date: Sep 2017

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    Think the quality controll has a lot to do with it. Older lp is more likely that it will shine through as the TT of the day was not as clean and sensitive as what we have today so no one knew to avoid it. Next will be masts production how fast could they turn out 100 000 lp's to the masses who dont listen to music just the sound from the boxes with the round things in them that vibrate. I try to find limited production/ reproduction runs they seem to sound better on my avarage TT. I dont have 60k to fork out plus im to deaf to ever warrant that.

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  7. #17
    Join Date: Jul 2016

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    I'm Gary.

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    Where the pre-echo results from magnetic tape print-through, I presume this occurs throughout the whole length of the tape ie. each wind of the tape on the spool contaminates the adjacent wind by superimposing a faint copy of the musical information it carries? It is only in the case of the first wind that we can hear it, for the simple reason that the adjacent tape is blank?

    I have to say I do not understand the explanation of how a pre-echo results from the operation of the cutting lathe. Why would the "heave" in the vinyl material which results from the cutting of the adjacent groove just happen to leave a sound which is identical to the music being cut? Surely it is more likely to be some sort of vague "negative image" of the activity in the neighbouring groove?
    IB

  8. #18
    Join Date: Apr 2008

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    I'm not convinced it's the cutting lathe which is responsible for some pre-echo. I suspect the stamper and pressures involved when the the vinyl is soft. Adjacent grooves being imprinted with a subtle echo.
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  9. #19
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  10. #20
    Join Date: Jan 2013

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    Congrats Barry, nice to see an argument backed up with source material and an interesting read.

    Not enough of this in my opinion, with urban legend/Chinese whispers being repeated over and over in many cases on the internet, without any reference to where it started.

    Not withstanding that Tape Burn through is also a real thing, so one or both may be contributing on a case by case scenario.

    Good information all round.

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