Is it me or is Hi-Fi getting even more over priced ?

[montesquieu]

Just the kind of fugly bling I was talking about.

[Sherwood]

You could have this for $1200 usd (£900) but the import and vat spoil the deal. Amazing build and design if you see inside.

https://goo.gl/images/qcdjq6

Import and shipping charges are not such a barrier. I have bought large floor standing speakers from the USA in the past and the shipping was less than $200 with VAT at 20%. Not so bad if the product is good and keenly priced to start with. The problem is when you do not buy from direct sell companies and have importers and retailers adding their charges. When I bought my Magneplanar 1.7 speakers the cost was about double what I would have paid for them in the USA.

I still don't understand why the USA is able to sell good hifi products at much more competitive prices than the UK and Europe. Ok, VAT is more than the typical state sales tax at 6%to10% but not much more so. Even harder to understand when many of the products come from the same Chinese manufacturers!

Geoff

[Macca]

Just the kind of fugly bling I was talking about.

I don't know, looks are never a big deal for me. The JM Labs I have at the moment are essentially a budget version of those speakers. The current version of them costs £5K new. If I had paid £5K for mine I would not be too happy. You can buy some of the new Tannoy Legacy Ardens for a little less. And I'd much rather have the Ardens. But for less than a tenth of that second hand, they are superb value for money.

To a degree it is all relative to what you can afford. If I was on five times the salary that I am then I guess I would not care about buying new and having to pay off the dealer and distributor. Money is only a means to an end. But I'm not, so I do.

[montesquieu]

If I was on five times the salary that I am then I guess I would not care about buying new and having to pay off the dealer and distributor. Money is only a means to an end. But I'm not, so I do.

I've thought about that. In my case it's possible it would. But my experience not having infinite dosh is that might well lead to laziness and to sub-optimal choices.

I think my main point was that there was far too much bling at Munich while the sound often underwhelmed - many many potential reasons for that of course.

[Macca]

I've thought about that. In my case it's possible it would. But my experience not having infinite dosh is that might well lead to laziness and to sub-optimal choices.

I think my main point was that there was far too much bling at Munich while the sound often underwhelmed - many many potential reasons for that of course.

Having to buy second hand can also lead to sub-optimal choices. To avoid that you have to know what you are doing and get lucky. As for Munich and such shows with serious high end I think that it is often the presentation that we dislike, rather than the quality of the sound, I mean, some people are buying it so someone likes it.

[montesquieu]

Having to buy second hand can also lead to sub-optimal choices. To avoid that you have to know what you are doing and get lucky. As for Munich and such shows with serious high end I think that it is often the presentation that we dislike, rather than the quality of the sound, I mean, some people are buying it so someone likes it.

Fair point on the sound not appealing .. that may indeed be it.

But buying second hand and networking with other like-minded souls has enormous advantages. In a bit more than a decade I must have heard 50 amps in my system and owned half that many, same with other components - cartridges and tonearms particularly in my case. Where there isn't the risk taking a huge hit on new gear it's easier to hone in on what you like.

[Macca]

Fair point on the sound not appealing .. that may indeed be it.

But buying second hand and networking with other like-minded souls has enormous advantages. In a bit more than a decade I must have heard 50 amps in my system and owned half that many, same with other components - cartridges and tonearms particularly in my case. Where there isn't the risk taking a huge hit on new gear it's easier to hone in on what you like.

Pretty much the opposite of what the mags preach...I'm with you on the second hand thing, it is what I do as well, but it would be interesting to be able to go to one of these shows and actually be able to comfortably, (i.e not really care about the financial loss if I decide I am not that keen after 6 months or so) buy what they are selling.

[Barry]

What am I prepared to buy new? These days, really only stuff that wears out, like cartridges and tubes.

For everything else I'm happy with older or at least second hand gear in fact as I sit behind my 1967 amp, 1964 turntable and with a late 50s-design SPU cartridge, 1974 speaker drivers in a (albeit improved using modern materials and modelling techniques) 1961-style cabinet, and my early 00s DAC which uses a valve output stage based on the then brand new Audio Note M5, I wonder what a lot of modern gear really brings to the party.

Very little at Munich really floated my boat (a couple of speaker designs, a couple of bits of valve stuff), most of it left me cold, especially some of the fugly blinged up turntables designed to go in designer rooms in designer houses of the sort mine isn't at all, though more generally also the whole standard contemporary hifi template, which with with a few honorable exceptions seemed to be about mediocre streaming solutions pumping out forgettable muzac into overly shiny and very inefficient multi-multi-driver speakers, driven by large, shiny solid state muscle amps. Musicality? Forget it. What a yawn fest.

Of course that's being a bit unfair .... there was some very good kit and some of it reasonably priced, I'm thinking the little single driver Hecos for example or some of the boutique valve stuff and general bits and bobs. But this was the exception to the rule, room after room of the same shiny alloy faceplates, blue LEDs and TTs made from chromed girders.

Actually I apply the same notion to cars I'm running an 8 year old Jaguar XF (the then top of the range) that cost me £11k and I'm really not missing much compared to the £50k new one.

Of that means I miss out on the thrill of visiting car showrooms and indeed hifi dealers - no point if I'm not going to be a customer. But I think I can live with that. I'd rather take my chances on the private sales forum.

Tight git? Maybe. I prefer sensible.

Good post Tom.

95% of my audio system(s) consists of items which were manufactured in the last century, and of those items probably 80% of them were bought used (all of my TTs, most of the amplification and tuners, and my all my speakers). The most recent items in use are a Studer-Revox CD player, Brinkmann 10.5 and SME M2-12R arms and a Van Den Hul MC cartridge, and these are the only items manufactured this century.

[Minstrel SE]

I dunno really. We are having a great recession to give it its proper term and it does seem to have polarised incomes. However thats in my world and the super rich seem to be increasing if anything. Something isnt right there and obscene amounts of money abound for those who have it all. The ultra expensive hi fi market seems to be doing rather well

My world always seemed to peak with a Sondek and how much is a Sondek now comapred with an 80s model? My view has always been blinkered to products I know and could hope to afford. I dont worry in that I could splash out a decent amount on hi fi and maybe the digital world has changed the value for money formula

I dont like the amalgamation and production moving to China and feel there should be a backlash against that

In the budget market its probably never been better as we have to compare cost inflation with say 80s prices. There seems a wider choice with more discounting and price competition.

[Barry]

I dunno really. We are having a great recession to give it its proper term and it does seem to have polarised incomes. However thats in my world and the super rich seem to be increasing if anything. Something isnt right there and obscene amounts of money abound for those who have it all. The ultra expensive hi fi market seems to be doing rather well

My world always seemed to peak with a Sondek and how much is a Sondek now comapred with an 80s model? My view has always been blinkered to products I know and could hope to afford. I dont worry in that I could splash out a decent amount on hi fi and maybe teh digital world has changed the value for money formula

I dont like the amalgamation and production moving to China and feel there should be a backlash against that

In the budget market its probably never been better as we have to compare cost inflation with say 80s prices. There seems a wider choice with more discounting and price competition.

I focus that nearly half the world population are living on less than $2.50 per day. Therefore in that sense I am privileged to be able to afford anything hi fi related

I try to avoid buying anything that has been made in China. It's not easy: most kitchen goods (kettles, food mixers, microwaves, toasters etc.) all seem to be made in China. Even power tools by previously well-regarded manufacturers such as Bosch, Makita, etc. now bare the legend "Made in PRC"!