Cantilever 'haze'

[magiccarpetride]

I keep hearing people mention 'cantilever haze' which, according to some accounts, becomes apparent once you hear the 'magic' of Decca C4E cartridge (which has no cantilever to speak of).

However, Decca C4E is notorious for being notably 'temperamental' (some compare it to vintage British automobiles); people are encountering a lot of quality control issues with it. Also, reports of mis-tracking abound. So according to many testimonials, this cartridge a blessing-and-a-curse type of a component.

Which makes me wonder: given the advantages of cantilever-less cartridges (i.e. the absence of cantilever haze and the amazing speed gained through the more direct signal path), why aren't some other cartridge manufacturers building cantilever-less cartridges? Does Decca own patent rights or what?

I mean, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand the many disadvantages of having a metal tube suspended via some rubber 'ring' vibrate and relay the signal. It is definitely desirable to eliminate that 'middle man' and shorten the distance between the tracked grooves and the coils/magnets that generate electrical signals.

It would be great if we were to see some competition in that arena. A little bit of a price war, and also hopefully a bit better quality control (Decca is historically notorious for its spotty quality control process).

[karma67]

good points,id like to think though due to mine being rebuilt and retipped any quality control issues are long gone

[magiccarpetride]

good points,id like to think though due to mine being rebuilt and retipped any quality control issues are long gone

Also, another important point is the extreme difficulty of setting the Decca cartridge properly. Seems like you need to pay a qualified dealer to set that cartridge for you. And even then, even when properly calibrated and fitted, it is known to mistrack and seems picky which LPs it wants to play.

So maybe a competitor could take those issues and solve them somehow, while retaining all the good aspects of the cantilever-less cartridge?

[karma67]

i found my c4e a doddle to set up,the tip looks in line with the cartridge body which is your only point of reference for alignment,that was a concern,the actual stylus tip is clearly visible for aligning with an arc protractor.
in my experience,which i agree is only this cartridge,i had much more trouble with the 2m black.
the decca to be honest has been one of the easiest to set up.

ive not had any mistracking issues so far.

[magiccarpetride]

i found my c4e a doddle to set up,the tip looks in line with the cartridge body which is your only point of reference for alignment,that was a concern,the actual stylus tip is clearly visible for aligning with an arc protractor.
in my experience,which i agree is only this cartridge,i had much more trouble with the 2m black.
the decca to be honest has been one of the easiest to set up.

ive not had any mistracking issues so far.

That's great to hear. I never had a chance to install Decca on my turntable, but I've been hearing stories about people having difficulty setting it. There also seems to be certain controversy surrounding the appropriate vertical tracking force of that cartridge. What force did you set?

[2kings]

I don't have any problems with all my SC4Es.
I find them easy to align with a proper protractor.

[Barry]

I don't have any problems with all my SC4Es.
I find them easy to align with a proper protractor.

Agreed - I have never had any problems with any of the Deccas I have (Mk. III, Mk. IV (SC4E), Mk. V and Mk. VI). In principle Deccas are no more difficult to set up than any other cartridge, but the installation can't be rushed - just as time and care should be taken with the setting up of any cartridge.

Where Deccas can be fussy is what to do with the 'fourth' wire, and with the choice of phonostage (which needs to have adequate overload headroom). Owing to the enormous sample-to-sample variation, due to sloppy workmanship and quality control, in order to obtain a decent performance some Deccas need to be pampered more than others. And reliability used to be pretty variable as well, because of poor quality control. This was recognised by Decca in the Mk. IV series with the better samples being selected and given an 'S' prefix (as in SH4E, and SC4E). This practice continued with the Mk. V series with the better samples being designated 'Grey' (or 'Export'), or the 'Maroon', the latter of which were built on a separate production line with more care and attention taken with assembly.

Light tonearm damping can be helpful, but is not IMO essential.

[karma67]

That's great to hear. I never had a chance to install Decca on my turntable, but I've been hearing stories about people having difficulty setting it. There also seems to be certain controversy surrounding the appropriate vertical tracking force of that cartridge. What force did you set?

i set mine to 1.8 as john wright advised.

[walpurgis]

i set mine to 1.8 as john wright advised.

How's it going with the Decca now you've had time to 'acclimatise' Jamie?

[karma67]

How's it going with the Decca now you've had time to 'acclimatise' Jamie?

Still over the moon! It has improved since I first put it on. Bloody lovely