record clamp/weights useful or not? Any ideal weight?

[smangus]

There was me hoping for an easy answer!

Ok, will rethink and maybe try a cheap one to see what happens. Will go for a weight not clamp though if I do.

Thanks

[farflungstar]

I have a variety of weights of different materials and weight - but by far the best is one I bought from a guy on here. It's adjustable by squeezing it which means you can apply as much or as little downforce as you want. I wish I could remember the name....

[Barry]

I use a Mitchell record clamp on my Thorens 124/II decks. Would never use a weight.

[Marco]

I agree with your observations Mark, as they mirror my own experiences (and fairly extensive) testing of various different record clamps and weights - all with the one turntable (and established reference), which is my modded Technics SL-1210. Your summary below sums things up nicely:

In short, there is no free lunch. Record weights and clamps both bring the record into tighter (not necessarily closer) contact with the record mat/interface. So whatever the sonic colourations (sound) of that interface are will be exaggerated. In other words, you hear the sound of the record mat/interface more. Whether you hear this effect is down to how transparent your system is - but after a certain point record mats and clamps/weights are clearly audible, as are the differences between different types.

Indeed. However, I still believe that the right form of record clamp (I don't rate weights very much) can be highly effective, and offer clearly audible sonic benefits, by ensuring that the record is firmly gripped in position (thus preventing any 'slipping' or movement during playback, no matter how small), and therefore allowing the stylus to trace the grooves with maximum accuracy.

Some of the best (and most expensive) turntables use elaborate clamping systems, such as that employed by the Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn, and I feel that's no coincidence. The key, for me, is to create a clamping effect on the record, without the use of mass, or via gripping the spindle, thus coupling the record to a primary source of noise. It's the latter that's a bad thing, not the clamping effect itself...

That's why I still use the magnetic design you made [shown below], which for me is ingenious, Being made from acrylic, it's low-mass, so exerts no strain or wear on the bearing, and the fairly strong magnetic interaction generated (between it and the spindle, of course this will only work on T/Ts with metal record spindles), 'clamps' the record firmly in place onto the mat, but without applying any force to the spindle, in the way of how record clamps traditionally work.

In use, I find that it notably reduces noise and distortion, increases 'musical focus' (by preventing the blurring of information), and also significantly reduces surface noise on playback. As such, I simply wouldn't be without it. You really should make more, as nothing else I've tried has been as successful or works quite like it!



Marco.

[smangus]

Hi all thanks for your comments,as is normally the case nothing in hi fi is simple !LOL

Marco ,your magnetic thingy sounds interesting but now unavailable, never mind. I have some thinking to do. Cheers Andy.

[Haselsh1]

I tried a couple of these out back in 2015. One was the screw on clamp type on a Pro-Ject and the other was just a heavy aluminium weight. I used the same Pro-Ject deck with the two different devices and the screw down clamp had by far the biggest impact on the sound in my system.

[Marco]

Marco ,your magnetic thingy sounds interesting but now unavailable, never mind. I have some thinking to do. Cheers Andy.

You never know, if you ask Mark nicely, he might make you one

Marco.

[bob4333]

My Orbe SE has an inbuilt clamping system.

Cleverly designed little thing that raises the centre of the disc slightly then pressurises it so that the disc lies flat, effectively clamped to the platter.

Very useful in dealing with any degree of warpage but having tried it with a flat LP, both with and without the clamp, I can detect no difference in the SQ.

So it has it's uses, but it's also a bit of a nuisance adding time and complication to the disc flipping business.

[Marco]

Interesting, Bob, that you should mention the Orbe (and I believe this also applies to the Gyrodec), in that the record clamping system is integral to the design of the turntable itself, and well-thought out, thus not simply something that's been added later, as an afterthought, which is often the case with these things...

That, for me, is key to the likely (sonic) success of any record clamping system ['system' being the operative word].

In that respect, it really needs to be factored into the design of the turntable, from the ground up. I'm surprised though, that you can't hear any difference without it, as anytime I've tried it with an Orbe, the sound, with the clamp fitted, has always been no-brainer better!

Marco.

[bob4333]

Interesting perception Marco.

I understand the theory and have done quite a few hours listening on a comparative basis but still can't pick up on the benefits.

And I'm almost off the OCD scale in setting up my turntable / arm etc.