There was me hoping for an easy answer!
Ok, will rethink and maybe try a cheap one to see what happens. Will go for a weight not clamp though if I do.
Thanks
There was me hoping for an easy answer!
Ok, will rethink and maybe try a cheap one to see what happens. Will go for a weight not clamp though if I do.
Thanks
I have a variety of weights of different materials and weight - but by far the best is one I bought from a guy on here. It's adjustable by squeezing it which means you can apply as much or as little downforce as you want. I wish I could remember the name....
Technics SP10 mk2
Jan Allaerts MC 1 Boron mk1 cart
Miyajima Shilabe cart
Hashimoto HM-X SUT
Siggwan (gimballed not unipivot) Cocobola 12"
Aurorasound Vida LCR Phonostage
The Truth linestage
Dave Slagle Autoformer Volume Controller
Cary 805c SET amps
Audio Note ANe-SPX speakers
Townshend Isolda speaker cables
Cardas Golden Presence interconnects
I use a Mitchell record clamp on my Thorens 124/II decks. Would never use a weight.
Barry
I agree with your observations Mark, as they mirror my own experiences (and fairly extensive) testing of various different record clamps and weights - all with the one turntable (and established reference), which is my modded Technics SL-1210. Your summary below sums things up nicely:
Indeed. However, I still believe that the right form of record clamp (I don't rate weights very much) can be highly effective, and offer clearly audible sonic benefits, by ensuring that the record is firmly gripped in position (thus preventing any 'slipping' or movement during playback, no matter how small), and therefore allowing the stylus to trace the grooves with maximum accuracy.
Some of the best (and most expensive) turntables use elaborate clamping systems, such as that employed by the Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn, and I feel that's no coincidence. The key, for me, is to create a clamping effect on the record, without the use of mass, or via gripping the spindle, thus coupling the record to a primary source of noise. It's the latter that's a bad thing, not the clamping effect itself...
That's why I still use the magnetic design you made [shown below], which for me is ingenious, Being made from acrylic, it's low-mass, so exerts no strain or wear on the bearing, and the fairly strong magnetic interaction generated (between it and the spindle, of course this will only work on T/Ts with metal record spindles), 'clamps' the record firmly in place onto the mat, but without applying any force to the spindle, in the way of how record clamps traditionally work.
In use, I find that it notably reduces noise and distortion, increases 'musical focus' (by preventing the blurring of information), and also significantly reduces surface noise on playback. As such, I simply wouldn't be without it. You really should make more, as nothing else I've tried has been as successful or works quite like it!
Marco.
Main System
Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.
Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.
Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.
CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.
Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.
Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.
Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.
Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.
Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.
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Hi all thanks for your comments,as is normally the case nothing in hi fi is simple !LOL
Marco ,your magnetic thingy sounds interesting but now unavailable, never mind. I have some thinking to do. Cheers Andy.
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days
Posts: 4,779
I'm Shaun.
I tried a couple of these out back in 2015. One was the screw on clamp type on a Pro-Ject and the other was just a heavy aluminium weight. I used the same Pro-Ject deck with the two different devices and the screw down clamp had by far the biggest impact on the sound in my system.
Main System
Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.
Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.
Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.
CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.
Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.
Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.
Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.
Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.
Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.
Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!
Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!
Location: Solihull, UK
Posts: 410
I'm Bob.
My Orbe SE has an inbuilt clamping system.
Cleverly designed little thing that raises the centre of the disc slightly then pressurises it so that the disc lies flat, effectively clamped to the platter.
Very useful in dealing with any degree of warpage but having tried it with a flat LP, both with and without the clamp, I can detect no difference in the SQ.
So it has it's uses, but it's also a bit of a nuisance adding time and complication to the disc flipping business.
Source: Orbe SE / SME IV / Cadenza Bronze
Source: WD NAS / Cyrus Stream X2 / Chord DAVE
Source: Oppo UDP-205 (CD/DVD-A/SACD)
Amplification: Icon Audio PS 3 Sig Phono + Audio Research LS27 + Musical Fidelity A5cr Power Amp
Loudspeakers: ProAc Response D28
Cables/stands: Mark Grant G1500HD + Linn K20 + Cat 5e
Other bits: Okki Nokki keeping things clean
Interesting, Bob, that you should mention the Orbe (and I believe this also applies to the Gyrodec), in that the record clamping system is integral to the design of the turntable itself, and well-thought out, thus not simply something that's been added later, as an afterthought, which is often the case with these things...
That, for me, is key to the likely (sonic) success of any record clamping system ['system' being the operative word].
In that respect, it really needs to be factored into the design of the turntable, from the ground up. I'm surprised though, that you can't hear any difference without it, as anytime I've tried it with an Orbe, the sound, with the clamp fitted, has always been no-brainer better!
Marco.
Main System
Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.
Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.
Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.
CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.
Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.
Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.
Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.
Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.
Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.
Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!
Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!
Location: Solihull, UK
Posts: 410
I'm Bob.
Interesting perception Marco.
I understand the theory and have done quite a few hours listening on a comparative basis but still can't pick up on the benefits.
And I'm almost off the OCD scale in setting up my turntable / arm etc.
Source: Orbe SE / SME IV / Cadenza Bronze
Source: WD NAS / Cyrus Stream X2 / Chord DAVE
Source: Oppo UDP-205 (CD/DVD-A/SACD)
Amplification: Icon Audio PS 3 Sig Phono + Audio Research LS27 + Musical Fidelity A5cr Power Amp
Loudspeakers: ProAc Response D28
Cables/stands: Mark Grant G1500HD + Linn K20 + Cat 5e
Other bits: Okki Nokki keeping things clean