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Thread: record clamp/weights useful or not? Any ideal weight?

  1. #31
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob4333 View Post
    Whoa Marco. Now I'm going to worry about that.

    Seriously, next time I'm in a comparative mood I'll give it a go, but nothing has hit me yet. Are you talking about PRaT vs Tone?
    Lol...What are you like?

    Yeah, kind of. My advice would be to spend a week listening to a selection of familiar music with the clamp ON, just to attune/acclimatise yourself to the sound.

    Then take the clamp off, and with the same music (perhaps choose a particular track to do the assessment test), ascertain if you can hear anything different, based on what you'd previously heard throughout the week, in terms of your enjoyment of the music and ability to 'get into it'.

    If any REAL difference exists, good or bad, it should hit you immediately!

    That's how I usually assess these things. *But* the test process has to involve familiar music, and be carried out for at least week. Quick-fire A/B/A tests, with such items, usually reveal little, if anything. See how you get on

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  2. #32
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    With the clamp (or weight) the sound is usually a little more solid sounding but also drier - less ‘airy sparkle’ sort of thing. However, it also emphasises the sound of the record mat. If you struggle to hear the difference between mats then I wouldn’t bother with a clamp (or weight) - you don’t need one to stop record slip, even on a glass mat (unless you want to clean your records on your turntable, which I wouldn’t recommend).

    Oh, the majority of mats (I have bought borrowed and made practically every type from humble to exotic) do behave as elaborate tone controls, damping some frequencies and exaggerating others.
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  3. #33
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWaN View Post
    Marco kindly mentions the clamp I developed which effectively acts like a weight but without mass - sounds like a contradiction but it's true. This clamp was developed for my own use with my own design of turntable and my own design of mat. Inevitably there is an element of 'system' about how these parts interact with each other but they can work independently - the use of them together is not mandatory for success and a number of people use my mat without a clamp; Marco uses the clamp without my mat (I think) and one friend uses both.
    Absolutely. And it's without your mat. I use a Nagaoka glass mat, the combination with which is superb. You really are being too modest, Mark. Your design, IMO, is excellent and worthy of being put into proper production as a commercial product, and sold through on-line retailers, at a price that would give you a respectable margin of profit.

    I'm serious! There's nothing like it on the market, and I'm confident that it would work well on most T/Ts

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #34
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    Thanks Marco, I must admit I’m pleased with it and do use a version of it myself. Indeed, there has been talk of commercialising it but nothing has come of it as yet. It’s not entirely universal though, it won’t work on Pink Triangle decks and Rocksans for example.
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  5. #35
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWaN View Post
    Thanks Marco, I must admit I’m pleased with it and do use a version of it myself. Indeed, there has been talk of commercialising it but nothing has come of it as yet. It’s not entirely universal though, it won’t work on Pink Triangle decks and Rocksans for example.
    Indeed, but it would work on the vast majority of turntables. If I were you, I'd give commercialising it some serious consideration, as I'm usually quite good a spotting a seller

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #36
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Deleted

    Posts: 6,585
    I'm Deleted.

    Default record clamp/weights useful or not? Any ideal weight?

    As ever, life and work get in the way. In truth I’m not that interested in commercialising my designs. If it hadn’t been for Roger at Tigerpaw the Tranquility would probably never have reached production and I designed the majority of it years ago.
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  7. #37
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Yeah I know how it is, mate. One to ponder though, if the urge ever takes you!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #38
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    Posts: 6,585
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    If anyone is interested in bringing it to market then I'm happy to partner up and provide drawings, CAD etc. AS you say, there isn't anything like it on the market and it does work in an inherently different way. I'm always looking toward the new though - my latest is a turntable suspension that I've never seen done before and for the really ambitious there is a tonearm design that is quite unique .
    Account Deleted

  9. #39
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    My experience is that the snap-on clamp makes the sound more strident, so I stopped using it. I prefer more relaxed sound myself.
    Yeah, I can certainly understand that observation.

  10. #40
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 4,419
    I'm Robert.

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    I've tried both weights and Michell clamp.

    I found the clamp had a sucking of the music effect on the Techie.

    My approach has always been simply no heavy weights and to just trust my ears.

    This has proven the best by far, doesnt add or take away really, just ever so slightly tightens things up a bit to my ears.
    I like Panzerwood in my set up and this is quality http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PanzerWood...UAAOSw-kdX0R0w
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2-Technics EPA-250 Tonearm-Yannis Tome 423.5Plus tonearm cable-Eichmann KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs.
    Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge-Fritz Gyger S re-tip. Panzerholz plinth.

    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable-airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket-Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs-Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

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