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Thread: Modern versus vintage CD players

  1. #11
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    Probably mid way player mine. 2003 I think. Can still get lasers although getting scarcer. Ive got a replacement and its got a new one in at moment. Plays pretty much anything that fits in drawer and sounds very good.

    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  2. #12
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

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    Is there some law that I've missed which forbids anyone from repairing an old cd player?

    I had a Sony that stopped reading discs. Several thousand hours on it, laser gone, right?

    Wrong, it was failed a ribbon connector. Took the gadgee 5 minutes to fix it.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Is there some law that I've missed which forbids anyone from repairing an old cd player?

    I had a Sony that stopped reading discs. Several thousand hours on it, laser gone, right?

    Wrong, it was failed a ribbon connector. Took the gadgee 5 minutes to fix it.
    on mine there is a resistor on the minature laser board that goes. so small I wouldnt see it far less replace it. hell the laser board is fiddly enough
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  4. #14
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Dunno if my Meridian 507 would be regarded as vintage now. I bought it new about 2004. Excellent unit.

    I do have a rather interesting transport built on a Pioneer platform and that's my Trichord Research Digital Turntable, Very nice it sounds too.

    But there again, so do the couple of Pioneer PD-S505 Precisions I also have.

    I use all these solely as transports these days (only one at a time though ).
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  5. #15
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    on mine there is a resistor on the minature laser board that goes. so small I wouldnt see it far less replace it. hell the laser board is fiddly enough
    I'm not saying that there isn't stuff that can go wrong that can't be fixed. Just that if a player stops working don't automatically assume that's the end of the line and bin it.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  6. #16
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: England

    Posts: 290
    I'm James.

    Default Repairing older players.

    I run a Pioneer PD-73 (1993), bought as not working from a Dealer we used to repair for after being dropped. After getting it going it hasn't missed a beat and I've not had the bonnet off since !
    The Lasers are now no longer available however, but I managed to obtain a few before they became unobtainium and have also managed to get a complete working (just), player from ebay so I will be able to keep it going to last me out, hopefully.

    A lot of 'vintage' players' Lasers now cannot be repaired due to the lack of Lasers and Spindle Motors and it will be these that will almost certainly be the cause of the problems they will have.
    A lot of higher end players used either Sony or Philips Lasers, a few used Sanyo blocks. There were a few others but they were very few.

    The older Philips Lasers (CDM-0, CDM-1) seem to be lasting forever. I have been repairing Hi-Fi now for nearly 30 years and I used to work for an independent Philips ASC and I have not once had to replace one of those Lasers! I'm not saying they cannot fail, but I have never seen a failed one. The CDM-2 for me was not quite so reliable. If the CDM-0/1 never failed why would anyone buy a new CD Player so ''...let's make them fail..'' (am I being too cynical!).
    I can't say I ever had to replace the CDM-3 but then again I can't think of a player I know that uses it.
    The CDM-4 again for me was not so reliable. A lot of other makes used these so maybe the percentages of players made to ones I saw actually make it pretty good, I don't know.
    The CDM-9 and 9PRO were used very extensively in High End players and I think were pretty reliable.
    All the above Lasers are now no longer available so buy a Player using them with care.

    The CDM-12 and VAM range of Lasers were used extensively and I think I am right in saying they were the last dedicated CD Laser Philips made. These are available to buy as spare parts to you and me from people such as CPC. They often have what looks like a genuine Philips sticker on them but I have had some disappointments when using these. Some play really well, some don't. Some need their Platter Height adjusting when compared to the old Laser coming out. I am not 100% certain these are being made by Philips and don't have a way of finding out.

    I won't go into the same amount of detail about Sony or Sanyo Lasers as there are soooo many Sony variants and I haven't studied them as much as I have the Philips ones (I'm a big fan of early Philips players).
    There are several of the Sony Lasers now available from people like CPC but again, I am not sure they are genuine Sony Lasers as I don't think Sony make them any longer.
    The KSS-210, KSS-213 and KSS-240 are available from CPC and I have had some success using them. A few have proved problematic but not many.
    (The KSS-240 was a great Laser. Any Sony using this Laser would play anything round and shiny inserted into the player even with horrendous scratches which would cause other players to have a melt-down!!).

    So, my advice is if you decide to look for a vintage player then try to find one where you can get a replacement Laser and Spindle Motor. You can check here.....(a great site for CD info)..
    http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/phi...chanisme_list/

    The CPC page for Lasers is here.......
    http://cpc.farnell.com/c/audio-visua...laser-pick-ups

    Of course there will always be electronic faults as well and consideration needs to be taken here also. A lot of the unique IC's used in early players will no longer be available from the manufacturers so a donor player from ebay for example would be needed to fix these faults. Generic IC's such as Motor Drive IC's again, may not be available from the manufacturer but I have often found them available in quantities on ebay. Here's one of the Motor Drive IC's for my Pioneer....
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...8410k&_sacat=0
    OP-Amps and Power Supply IC's I think will always be available and also, there's a whole world of up-grading paths to be had here of course.

    So, the point of my post is, don't be put off buying a vintage player but do some research first as to what is available, spare parts wise and also try to find a friendly Service Engineer who will be willing to undertake the necessary work for you or continue any work you have started yourself and got stuck.
    There's a lot of expert advice to be had on Forums of course and especially the DIY Audio Forum although be wary of that one as they can be quite snobbish with people who aren't 'experts'.

    Cheers,

    Jim.

  7. #17
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: North Down /Northern Ireland/ UK

    Posts: 19,484
    I'm Neil.

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    You would be in my view foolish not to include the likes of the Marantz CD85, CD94, CD94 mk2 + the CD80 in that list of desirable machines to look for, but I like these machines and never did like the likes of Sony or Pioneer but that's me.
    Regards Neil

  8. #18
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: England

    Posts: 290
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L View Post
    You would be in my view foolish not to include the likes of the Marantz CD85, CD94, CD94 mk2 + the CD80 in that list of desirable machines to look for, but I like these machines and never did like the likes of Sony or Pioneer but that's me.
    Tweaked Philips internals so yes, definitely worth considering.
    The CD-94 used the CDM-1 so will probably outlast us all ;-) And had the TDA1541A DAC chip so ....................... drool !!!!

  9. #19
    Join Date: Aug 2008

    Location: Tyldesley Manchester

    Posts: 294
    I'm David.

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    I have a Copland 288. I used to have a Copland 289 and sold it for something newer from MF which was a bad move. The old Copland players, esp the 288 was reviewed as being too big and warm with little bite. Well I've heard newer players with bite and they can't touch the Copland for musicality and scale. Parts are very hard to find though for the mechanism so you need to check this when buying vintage. Gears wear out, go brittle and the laser may need replacing.
    David.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Apr 2017

    Location: Cheshire UK

    Posts: 843
    I'm Martin.

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    I know the Marantz CD-94 is one the gang are looking for. The CDM-1 mechanism is a thing of beauty. Its a fine example of "they dont build them like that anymore" I had one on the bench fairly recently and its just a shame that Philips cocked up the soldering with the other processing boards on some early players.

    I really dont like these plastic looking mechanisms and cogs now...ok they do a job but for how long? Ive read that I have the Vam 2200 series which is the last cd only laser assembly Philips produced and has lasted 14 years with lightish use. I wont know exactly whats in there until I need to look for possible replacement

    I would have thought they would have carried on with a CDM-1 build in a premium transport because its functionally superb with its magnetic swing arm and solid looking glass laser assembly. High read speeds are not needed for audio use and a single beam swing arm would be fine

    I also have a problem with the use of the word vintage to describe my twenties and thirties
    Last edited by Minstrel SE; 10-10-2017 at 19:17.

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