Passive preamp buzzing?

[Bigman80]

I would say that they are completely accurate and perfect in an audio context. The only thing more accurate is a frequency compensated stepped attenuator in a 50 Ohm system and this is irrelevant until we get to MHz frequencies...

Something I keep mentioning is that a perfect anything in hi fi, other than speakers I guess, would likely not stand out as anything special. It's "just" not adding or taking away anything at all. If you are used to a range of top quality equipment and something new comes along that sounds really "wow!" I'd be very suspicious of it... It's probably really coloured in a way that's initially impressive or at least on one type of music...

I see what you're saying Jez. In all honesty, the GP was a wow moment after my pre, plugging the avc in is more of a subtle Change. Pretty much instantly, I felt the AVC was more natural in its presentation of tone and this was confirmed over about 10 different tracks, the bass in fuller and driven and the treble has a bit more depth to it. I really like the AVC. It's my favourite of the three in my system.

One quandary, it seems that the channels are swapped in the AVC. On the FB and GP preamps the channels correspond with the CD version of the same track but the AVC is opposite. A quick swap of the interconnects to switch them back has sorted it but wondered if that's a thing with Autoformers or a wiring error?

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[Arkless Electronics]

Wiring error.

Well as long as you're happy but I wouldn't use one no matter how good it sounds because a stepped attenuator is better. It may not sound better to some but it is better as it is more accurate. I want accuracy above all else from my system.

[Bigman80]

Wiring error.

Well as long as you're happy but I wouldn't use one no matter how good it sounds because a stepped attenuator is better. It may not sound better to some but it is better as it is more accurate. I want accuracy above all else from my system.

Fair enough Jez.

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[Yomanze]

Haha, it seems to be another "matter of taste" situation. I'm enjoying the GP. It was very open and revealing. If the Slagle does that with some extra umph, I'll be very impressed.

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Interesting that you point out 'umph', whilst a passive can be more transparent and 'open' as you say it comes at a penalty of lacking slam and macro-dynamics compared to an active. So, which is more faithful to the music? You make your choice. I personally miss the 'umph' when I use passives, and I've tried some serious ones. My source has an output impedance of 90R (4R without the output transformers), so is not a bottleneck here.

[Bigman80]

Interesting that you point out 'umph', whilst a passive can be more transparent it comes at a penalty of lacking slam and macro-dynamics compared to an active. So, which is more faithful to the music? You make your choice.

I suppose so but impact can be lost if it's not delivered. The passive may be the least intrusive but to my ears it's lacking the impact and force when a drum roll takes place. It's not the case with the AVC. The AVC is more realistic in that respect. I imagine it'll be a trade-off somewhere for either unit.

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[Yomanze]

I suppose so but impact can be lost if it's not delivered. The passive may be the least intrusive but to my ears it's lacking the impact and force when a drum roll takes place. It's not the case with the AVC. The AVC is more realistic in that respect. I imagine it'll be a trade-off somewhere for either unit.

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...yes, that lacking of 'impact' and 'force' is exactly what I notice too.

[Bigman80]

...yes, that lacking of 'impact' and 'force' is exactly what I notice too.

Hmmmm, there seems to be very little between the two in terms of resolution and detail, the leading edge of notes is more apparent but I'd attribute this to impact. It's strange but there's just something about the way the AVC delivers the music that feels right.

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[Marco]

I recall there being bugger all difference between them, as expected, (not none at all but barely noticeable and I was wondering if I was kidding myself that I could hear any difference really) apart from the Slagle TVC which was noticeably slightly bright and brought out leading edges of plucked guitar etc... which sounded nice (more impressive) but probably not as accurate as the others.

I was also present at the 'passive bake-off' Macca mentioned, and broadly agree with both your comments and his.

I liked the Slagle, but (sorry, Ali and also Geoff) I could still hear the coloration I always do when listening to transformer-based passives, which is that they tend to 'fill in' the bottom end a little and add some warmth to the midrange (somewhat like valves), which can definitely make things sound subjectively better, in terms of increasing (perceived) 'musicality'.

What they also do, in my experience, is provide some 'drive', akin to that offered by a good active preamp, which often gives the impression of injecting music with more 'life', and I think the Slagle did that better than any of the other passives tested that day, including the Goldpoint, which in the test system used, sounded somewhat lacklustre.

Certainly compared with what I was accustomed to from it in my own system, and what Oliver has since reported in his.

The GP was very much (painstakingly) 'tuned' to a) suit the 'loudness structure' [down boy ] in my system, and more crucially, its sonic signature, and so was 'voiced' (largely by me), like my TD Copper amp, to be as neutral sounding and act as much as an 'open window' onto recordings as possible, such as Oliver has commented. The Z-Foil resistors fitted were instrumental in achieving that.

In that respect, it was quite clear to me that the GP wasn't an optimal match, sonically or otherwise, for the particular characteristics of the test system that day, which again for me ably proved how much passive preamps are 'suck it and see' devices, with some ultimately being more compatible with certain partnering equipment than others.

It's the only piece of gear I've ever taken to a bake-off that hasn't largely performed the same way as it does in my system at home, and sounded fantastic, in the way of what's happened when I've taken the Croft and/or the Copper amp on their travels, or even my Technics T/T - and for me that tells its own story.

As ever in audio, synergy (together with personal sonic preferences) is king! And in that respect, a TVC might hit the spot for Oliver. I'll be most interested in what his findings are between any TVC he puts into his system, compared with the Goldpoint.

Marco.

[struth]

Im with Ali and Geoff LOL.. or am I ???

[Bigman80]

I have to say the GP did blow my mind. It was like id opened the curtains and windows and then decided to knock the wall down for a better view. It may sound dramatic but that's the impact it had on me. I plugged it in when Alan popped round and he too mirrored my thoughts. There is something not synergistic with my system though as i get a tiny bit of distortion on crescendos but i am sure whatever it is could be fixed, if it were mine. It delivers music with precision and neutrality. The AVC DOES seem to be richer, maybe sweeter and yes i'd echo that it has an element of "valve" midrange BUT i have valves in my Phonostage and my monoblocks so is it the AVC or is it just revealing the tonal qualities i set out to achieve when i bought them? Is the GP tonally anaemic? Its hard to say and having very little exposure to different types of Pre, i dont think i'll know for sure. What i do know is that the AVC makes cymbals sound metallic, which they are. Like a drumstick is actually strining the surface and moving the metal. The GP doesn't. I am susceptible to inaccuracies in percussion due to playing drums. Its very close to what i hear when i play, same with guitar and piano. Play those too, (piano badly lol)

To surmise, i think i'll need a week or so of listening as i did with the GP, to really know what i think.