The vinyl illusion ?

[Marco]

I'm arguing with myself really; much of the time I am 'doing nothing' by those criteria. What I was objecting to was the article's underlying message that, somehow, a fountain pen is more 'real' than a ballpoint pen, especially when the vast majority of us use neither. Similarly with a sail boat as opposed to a motor boat...

I get what you mean, but how would you *really* know, unless you regularly partake in those activities, as well that offered by modern counterparts, and thus are able to directly compare both experiences?

I've never been a big hand-writer (even before computers were common place, I enjoyed using manual typewriters, an experience that incidentally I found eminently more satisfying than I do now when typing on a computer), but I'd imagine that for enthusiasts of such, a certain satisfaction is derived from selecting and buying the ink, using a beautifully handmade fountain pen (different types of specialist writing paper, etc), and the 'feel' that it gives when writing, and just the whole overall experience, compared with the relatively 'soulless' one, in comparison, of using a ballpoint pen on a piece of 'throwaway paper'.

Similarly, I've never sailed, in any shape or form, but I'd imagine that there'd be a similar 'hands on' satisfaction to be had from sailing in a simple sail boat, compared with in a motor boat, and how 'at one' you were with nature. However, the clear message of the article is that in life it's often when we put the most effort into something, that we get the most reward, and in my experience that's often how it is.

The irony I was pointing out lies in the fact that we are reading and discussing the tas article in a virtual space, via computers, rather than writing about it to each other using fancy fountain pens.

Indeed, but the point is it's not the case that technology hasn't resulted in creating some genuine progress; it has, simply that it's a matter of using it responsibly and not allowing it to take over and control your life (as it has sadly for many today), which is why it's important to have a REAL life, as well as a 'virtual' one!

I certainly know that I'd much more appreciate receiving a hand-written real Christmas or birthday card, than a 'virtual' one, sent via a computer, or a hand-written letter, as opposed to an email. I've always valued the personal touch and a bit of class!

Marco.

[RothwellAudio]

Piss off back to the posh wine bars you bloody health Nazis.

Spot on!
...there was no one left to talk to inside... other than a couple of boring health nazis...

Flippin'eck - agreement between Macca and Jez!

[Marco]

Last time I was in Manchester city centre I was appalled at the number of youngsters (ie anyone under 30 years of age) that were seemingly oblivious to all that was going on around them.
To the point of it being dangerous.
All it takes is someone behind the wheel of a car who's paying attention to stuff on the phone, and it's a real recipe for disaster.

There's the recent case of the woman who was killed by a cyclist in London.
If she hadn't had her attention on the smartphone she was using, there's a high probability that she would still be around today.

Indeed, and it's both sad and shocking in equal measure. However, it's the same almost everywhere now, Chris. Folk are glued to their mobile phones and seemingly can't function without them.

Even when I was in church last Sunday, a woman was receiving bleeping text alerts on her phone, during mass, and seemed unperturbed by it, until the priest and a significant proportion of the congregation (me included) gave her a nasty glare, which shamed her into switching the damn thing off!!

Marco.

[Joe]

Flippin'eck - agreement between Macca and Jez!

On the common ground of professional Northerness. I can just see them stood outside their respective locals, hands cupped to shelter tab, whippet on lead, cloth cap on head, muffler done up to chin, muttering to themselves.

[Marco]

When I sit on my backside enjoying my other hobby of paramotoring it really stirs the spirit. It makes me feel connected to the world through enjoying the alternative viewpoint and achieving what the birds take for granted.

Yeah, respect for that mate, as it doesn't get much better. I'd love to try it sometime!

Marco.

[RothwellAudio]

On the common ground of professional Northerness. I can just see them stood outside their respective locals, hands cupped to shelter tab, whippet on lead, cloth cap on head, muffler done up to chin, muttering to themselves.

Muffler? Is that something that southern softies have? No, they'll be standing outside in string vests

[Joe]

I get what you mean, but how would you *really* know, unless you regularly partake in those activities, as well that offered by modern counterparts, and thus are able to directly compare both experiences?

I've never been a big hand-writer (even before computers were common place, I enjoyed using manual typewriters, an experience that incidentally I found eminently more satisfying than I do now when typing on a computer), but I'd imagine that for enthusiasts of such, a certain satisfaction is derived from selecting and buying the ink, using a beautifully handmade fountain pen (different types of specialist paper, etc), and the 'feel' that it gives when writing, and just the whole overall experience, compared with the relatively 'soulless' one, in comparison, of using a ballpoint pen on a piece of 'throwaway paper'.

I can't remember the last time I used a fountain pen. Not since I left school, probably. I mostly compose essays and such directly on screen, and have done for (gulp!) 30 years or so, but I make notes using a ballpoint or pencil to save lugging the laptop around. I use hardback notebooks because they're more durable, but if needs must I'll happily make notes on the back of an envelope. For me, pens and paper are tools to do a job, rather than objects of desire/interest, and for extended writing, nothing beats the ability to move text around and edit quickly that a laptop or PC provides. I'm the same with watches; I have only the one, given to me as a birthday present ten years or so ago. It probably cost around £60, but if I'd had to buy one for myself I'd probably have bought something cheaper, as long as it kept time reliably and the face was easy to read.

[Marco]

I know. Added to that we had better music, better football, Formula One was still worth watching and you could smoke in the pub and the cinema. poor bastards don't know what they are missing, no wonder they retreat into their 'phones, it's all they've got.

I know you're being somewhat facetious, but the question you have to ask is WHY is that ALL they've got??

When I was that age, I had both parents who cared about me, and who took me all over the place with them on trips out to the seaside or countryside, and friends I interacted with in REAL life, by playing football with them in the park, going out on long cycles together, listening to music and all sorts. In the summer time I was never in!

These days, that simply doesn't seem to happen, and kids are cooped up inside glued to their phones or xbox, often grossly overweight because of a lack of exercise, and as a result suffer from low self-esteem or ADHD, and you have ask yourself WHY that is..... What has caused such a wholesale change in the world we live in??

Marco.

[narabdela]

All the best threads wander off topic.

[Marco]

I can't remember the last time I used a fountain pen. Not since I left school, probably. I mostly compose essays and such directly on screen, and have done for (gulp!) 30 years or so, but I make notes using a ballpoint or pencil to save lugging the laptop around. I use hardback notebooks because they're more durable, but if needs must I'll happily make notes on the back of an envelope. For me, pens and paper are tools to do a job, rather than objects of desire/interest, and for extended writing, nothing beats the ability to move text around and edit quickly that a laptop or PC provides. I'm the same with watches; I have only the one, given to me as a birthday present ten years or so ago. It probably cost around £60, but if I'd had to buy one for myself I'd probably have bought something cheaper, as long as it kept time reliably and the face was easy to read.

Well, that's fair enough, but you also have to accept and appreciate that others might be different. I've always been someone who values the nice things in life, and often the time and effort it takes to get them.

Marco.