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Thread: The vinyl illusion ?

  1. #71
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Martin.

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    I don't think 'masking' is the right word. More like it draws your attention away from any deficiencies. Not that there are that many 'poor recordings', in fact there are hardly any. Problems with poor recordings are down to poor (or fake) hi fi equipment. Or a badly set up TT.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  2. #72
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Not possible though because when you come to cut your vinyl record the signal is converted to digital for the cutter head.
    Not so, for the true purist. See here: http://www.vinylgourmet.com/en/music...-2012-usa.html

    ...noting in particular this bit [but read the rest of the article, regarding how the whole process was done]:

    "Analogue Productions and Quality Record Pressings are proud to announce that these six studio LP titles — The Doors, Strange Days, Waiting For The Sun, Soft Parade, Morrison Hotel and L.A. Woman — are featured on 200-gram vinyl, pressed at 45 rpm. All were cut from the original analog masters by Doug Sax, with the exception of The Doors, which was made from the best analog tape copy.

    A truly authentic reissue project, the masters were recorded on tube equipment, and the tape machine used for the transfer of these releases is a tube machine, as is the cutting system...".
    And it's no coincidence that the above Doors 45rpm box-set is amongst the finest sounding collection of records I own

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

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  3. #73
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

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    I'm Shaun.

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    I think that there is something going on here regarding analogue and digital and how they perform with respect to cutting heads. I have been into photography for 48 years now and until recently spent many years scanning analogue negatives with an Epson V700 scanner so that it resulted in a digital file. Even though these are now in the digital domain they hold such amazing 'analogue' quality it is hard to understand how. These digital files portray all of the depth and tonal quality of the original negative and still produce stunning quality prints but now on the most amazing cotton fibre watercolour papers. OK, so they are scanned at 24 bit colour and then in my case converted to monochrome later but at least I can now use ultra high quality 'art' papers to print them on.

    My point is, with this in mind, why should audio not behave in the same way...?

  4. #74
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Valley of the Hazels

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    I'm AMusicFanNotAnAudiophile.

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    Chris



    Common sense isn't anymore!

  5. #75
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

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    I'm Shaun.

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    Brilliant ! Loved the video. Many thanks for that.


  6. #76
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Indeed, so Martin needs to update his hi-fi 'facts folder' accordingly

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  7. #77
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Indeed, so Martin needs to update his hi-fi 'facts folder' accordingly

    Marco.
    I thought when I wrote that that someone was bound to come back with some obscure place where they still use an analogue cutting lathe. It isn't in any way related to the point I was making.

    Shaun - digital video and photography has zero connection with digital sound. Two entirely different things.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  8. #78
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I thought when I wrote that that someone was bound to come back with some obscure place where they still use an analogue cutting lathe. It isn't in any way related to the point I was making.
    Doesn't matter. It shows that it *can* still be done (and indeed is) by those seeking to make vinyl records, mastered and produced fully in the analogue domain. That makes what I was saying earlier (which you 'corrected' me on), entirely valid!

    And btw, there are quite a few of these "obscure places" around if you know where to look...

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #79
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,173
    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I don't think 'masking' is the right word. More like it draws your attention away from any deficiencies. Not that there are that many 'poor recordings', in fact there are hardly any. Problems with poor recordings are down to poor (or fake) hi fi equipment. Or a badly set up TT.
    Massively disagree. There are loads of awful recordings! There are not that many truly superb ones on the other hand.

    Oh and I would expect most cutting lathes to be analogue. Not that I'm going to google it. Most are simply ones from back in the day, refurbished and put back into use. I was just reading in "Pro Sound News" a week ago about the refurbishment of a Neumann lathe found in decent condition somewhere like Nairobi and taken back to London.
    Arkless Electronics-Engineered to be better. Tel. 01670 530674 (after 1pm)

    Modded Thorens TD150, Audio Technica AT-1005 MkII, Technics EPC-300MC, Arkless Hybrid MC phono stage, Arkless passive pre, Arkless 50WPC Class A SS power amp, (or) Arkless modded Leak Stereo 20, Modded Kef Reference 105/3's
    ReVox PR99, Studer B62, Ferrograph Series 7, Tandberg TCD440, Hitachi FT-5500MkI, also FT-5500MkII
    Digital: Yamaha CDR-HD1500 (Digital Swiss army knife-CD recorder, player, hard drive, DAC and ADC in one), PC files via 24/96 sound card and SPDIF, modded Philips CD850, modded Philips CD104, modded DPA Little Bit DAC. Sennheiser HD580 cans with Arkless Headphone amp.
    Cables- free interconnects that come with CD players, mains leads from B&Q, dead kettles etc, extension leads from Tesco

  10. #80
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics View Post
    Massively disagree. There are loads of awful recordings! There are not that many truly superb ones on the other hand.
    I would also agree. Dunno where Martin's coming from there.

    Look at all the 'brickwalled to buggery', CDs there are, from the 'loudness wars', for starters - all of which sound DIRE! When on the other hand, as you say, there are no where near as many truly great recordings around, either on vinyl or CD.

    The majority of what's out there, aside from the dire shite, is simply 'good enough', but not in any way exceptional.

    Oh and I would expect most cutting lathes to be analogue. Not that I'm going to google it. Most are simply ones from back in the day, refurbished and put back into use. I was just reading in "Pro Sound News" a week ago about the refurbishment of a Neumann lathe found in decent condition somewhere like Nairobi and taken back to London.
    Good point

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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