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Thread: The vinyl illusion ?

  1. #291
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    But what does a cello sound like? They all vary.
    Indeed, but now we're getting to the nitty-gritty... *That* is where your ears and experience come in, and the quality of your judgement!

    I'd contend that those able to get that right the most, will have systems capable of both 'high musicality', high-resolution, and genuine (as far as possible) accuracy, with all the SOUL and emotion you can shake a stick at!

    My benchmark in that respect has always been what a professional musician would say when listening to an instrument he knows intimately well, reproduced by my system.

    Therefore, I'd invite a professional cellist to my home, and ask him to bring a recording of him playing his own instrument, and if at the end of the demo he tells me that my system makes it sound convincingly real, then job's a good 'un!

    I'd certainly take his trained ears as being an accurate arbiter of such, long before I'd do the same with the readouts on any test equipment, deeming my equipment as 'accurate' or otherwise, that's for sure... And that's where so many of us go wrong in this game: trusting measurements or specs, more than our own ears and judgement!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  2. #292
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

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    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    No, seriously do not think that this is the case. As I have said before, my only interest is in emotion derived from the music which is derived from the hi-fi and the way it is reproduced. I am not interested in how accurate or not the system may be. With that in mind though, I certainly would not want a PA in my lounge. Hell, there's a thought
    So when you print your photographs, you don't bother to focus the enlarger correctly, or perhaps use coloured filters?
    Barry

  3. #293
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Good point

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #294
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Gravesend and France

    Posts: 1,498
    I'm paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    This thread has me a bit bemused. I actually don't care that much about hifi. I've selected kit over many years with the goal of really enjoying the music I put on. Yes that does involve an element striving for accuracy (as in - it's hard to enjoy a viola da gamba that sounds like a badly-recorded cello). But it's not the be all and end all - enjoying the music is.

    Peter Walker of Quad put tone controls on his preamps because he was well aware that all too often recording engineers / mastering engineers fail to produce something that sounds decent, enjoyable, listenable. Accuracy fails in my book if any recording can't be listened to with pleasure. Ten years ago I spent time chasing detail - only to find I was barking up the wrong tree altogether. I blew up my system, ever bit of it (Quad ESL, Whest phono stages, Lyra cartridges) and started again.

    It's amazing the detail that suddenly appears on a recording if you sit down with the score of the work you are listening to - indeed, usually you find it's all on the record already, what's missing is your attention drawn to a particular element. But as a musician, and sometime conductor, I know (and should have known 10years ago) that not every detail cries out to come to the top screaming attention to itself - often the goal is to blend into the whole and create an overall effect. A system that draws your attention overly into how it reproduces tiny details or obsesses on pin perfect instrument placement, and not into the soul of the music - the harmony, counterpoint, rhythm, musical communication between the performers, micro-expression and articulation of phrasing, and most of all, the overall vibe - is a waste of time.

    You know at the opticians where they make the image super sharp, it's almost painful, then they add a lens that doesn't make it blurry as such, but takes the edge off and makes it comfortable - that's what I aim at. Breed out hash, blurring, noise, strange tonal artefacts - yes of course, you need to get to a point where those aren't there, where the sound is clear and there's no rubbish getting in the way. But go too far, use too magnifying a lens, and you can take away soul of of the music.

    If I put on a record and it makes my ears bleed, I don't just blame the recording engineer: he has failed, yes but also in some way so has my system. I have quite a few orchestral records that sound like they were recorded in a giant toilet, or have instruments far too closely miked, or some other glaring flaw. Often the performance is dross as well so there's no need ever to play it again. Occasionally though, that crap recording contains some excellent or rare performance - and my system ought to be able to make a decent fist of doing something with it. I can marvel at what my system drags out of 78s - not a hifi medium by any stretch - but enjoyable - yes indeed.

    Accuracy - yes, up to a point, Lord Copper.
    Like ultra HD picture quality doesn't look like real life. The camera is enhancing the picture beyond reality. Surround sound from movies is another thing I don't like. Can't say I've ever been in a war zone but suspect the sound from films is exaggerated
    Bakoon 13r Denon DP80 Stax UA-70 Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body with jico stylus, project ds2 digital Rullit aero 8 field coils in tqwt speakers

    Office system, DIY CSS fullrange speakers with aurum cantus G2 ribbons yulong dac Sony STR6055 receiver Jvc QL-A51 direct drive turntable, Leema sub. JVC Z4S cart is in the house

    Garage system another Sony receiver, cassette deck


    System components are subject to change without warning and at the discretion of the owner.

  5. #295
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulf-2007 View Post
    Like ultra HD picture quality doesn't look like real life. The camera is enhancing the picture beyond reality.
    But then, neither does the picture on any TV. It simply creates an illusion of reality, as does a hi-fi system, when reproducing music.

    So does that mean we should just watch programmes on a 30-year old portable TV from Tesco, or listen to music on a wind-up gramophone?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #296
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    I'm Grant.

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    That's a windup, yes lol
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
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    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

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    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  7. #297
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Why was it a windup, daftee?

    The point I'm making is that although it's all ultimately an illusion, you still do your best to make that illusion as 'real' as possible, whether it's the image on a TV set or the sound from a hi-fi system.

    You don't just 'not bother' and settle for mediocrity, or worse.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #298
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 4,737
    I'm jamie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    That's a windup, yes lol
    bloody hell they do wind up tellys??
    My System
    John Wood KT88 Amp.
    Paradise Phono Stage
    Sony TTS-8000 Turntable.
    PMAT-1010 MK6 Tonearm.
    Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
    Sony X555ES Cd Player
    Yamaha NS1000m Speakers

  9. #299
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Why was it a windup, daftee?

    The point I'm making is that although it's all ultimately an illusion, you still do your best to make that illusion as 'real' as possible, whether it's the image on a TV set or the sound from a hi-fi system.

    You don't just 'not bother' and settle for mediocrity, or worse.

    Marco.

    I think it was a [bad] pun - all the best ones are bad though.

  10. #300
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Lol, indeed... That one was so wound up it flew right passed me!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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