The vinyl illusion ?

[Pharos]

I cannot get past the point that when using digital sources or processing, at some point it has to be converted back into an analogue signal to b replayed.

If there are errors due to digital processes, they must be identifiable on the reconstructed analogue waveform, and if there is not difference between that waveform and the source waveform, there can be no corruption.

If you have any information James about deficiencies of ICE, please direct me to a source of that information.

[Jimbo]

I cannot get past the point that when using digital sources or processing, at some point it has to be converted back into an analogue signal to b replayed.

If there are errors due to digital processes, they must be identifiable on the reconstructed analogue waveform, and if there is not difference between that waveform and the source waveform, there can be no corruption.

If you have any information James about deficiencies of ICE, please direct me to a source of that information.

I was talking about In car entertainment .

[Jimbo]

An interesting take on why folk still like to listen to vinyl.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...art-and-hands/

[Marco]

If I was to dismiss this as nonsense I would probably risk the wrath of Marco. So I won't.

If you can categorically prove that it's nonsense, then feel free to support your view with the relevant evidence [and it needs to be conclusive], otherwise it's simply your opinion, which is no more authoritative than Jim's.

Marco.

[Marco]

An interesting take on why folk still like to listen to vinyl.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...art-and-hands/

Indeed, so thanks for sharing

I particularly liked and agreed with these bits:

I would hazard a guess that we all make certain technological choices that we feel are better, even though they may be more difficult or less sophisticated in the first analysis. Manual transmissions. Fountain pens. Espresso machines. Analog wrist watches. Sail boats. The list is endless. And we make these choices in large part because we believe they more fully involve us than an automatic transmission, a ballpoint pen, instant coffee, a digital watch, or a motorboat. They all stimulate our need to think, feel, and sense our world. Perhaps then we need to rethink what it means for a technology to be good, and, instead of letting technology lead us with its objective shiny newness...

Too right!

And:

The Information Age has resulted in a sense of disconnectedness with the world... And we can easily see a global movement of cultures (including our own) in search of new meanings and connections. The audio hobby too faces these same transformations.

But I do see a great deal of enthusiasm and hope in the generations just now experiencing vinyl for the first time. I think that they exhibit this basic instinct to return to those experiences that celebrate our entwinement with our world. At the end of the day, I do feel as though the “actual” will compel over the “virtual” in the social realm and, yes, in audio too.

Yup, and I believe that's a primary reason why vinyl will never die. Quite simply, it's an innately 'human thing'.

And best of all:

And finally, why do people still listen to records? Because they use the technologies that engage them. Because they like to think and feel and sense their world. Because these are people actively involved in a life worth living.

Hear, hear!! Especially that last sentence.

Unlike the 'zombies' who've effectively disconnected themselves from the real world, and instead inhabit largely a virtual one, with their 'faceless friends' on social media, listening to music on their mobile phones, cocooned within their plastic little bubbles, conducting their plastic existences, largely oblivious of the simple pleasures that make life worth living.

Marco.

[magiccarpetride]

Indeed, so thanks for sharing

I particularly liked and agreed with these bits:



Too right!

And:



Yup, and I believe that's a primary reason why vinyl will never die. Quite simply, it's an innately 'human thing'.

And best of all:



Hear, hear!! Especially that last sentence.

Unlike the 'zombies' who've effectively disconnected themselves from the real world, and instead inhabit largely a virtual one, with their 'faceless friends' on social media, listening to music on their mobile phones, cocooned within their plastic little bubbles, conducting their plastic existences, largely oblivious of the simple pleasures that make life worth living.

Marco.

I think the key point (for me) of that well thought out article is the fact that we've been collectively duped into conflating easy with good. Convenience is proclaimed to be the highest imaginable good, while in reality convenience is insanely overrated, as most things that make life worth living tend to be extremely inconvenient.

[Haselsh1]

Us folk who love vinyl have an option. We can place a silver disc onto a tray whereupon it will disappear into a box and the sound will emerge from the speakers or, we can put a large flat piece of vinyl onto a platter and watch and be mesmerised as it plays music. I think that the latter is almost like watching fire. It is old and ancient and has the same kind of spiritual connection.

I won't even mention using a streaming service. There's no point.

[Marco]

I think the key point (for me) of that well thought out article is the fact that we've been collectively duped into conflating easy with good. Convenience is proclaimed to be the highest imaginable good, while in reality convenience is insanely overrated, as most things that make life worth living tend to be extremely inconvenient.

Indeed, Alex, and why do you think that has happened; why has convenience triumphed so spectacularly over quality, to the gross detriment of society...?

Quite simply, because the pressures of modern life mean that few people have TIME to indulge in the simple pleasures that make life worth living. And so why is that...??

Because, and this is a major problem in the UK, poor work/life balances essentially rob people of their freedom, as they have to work all the hours under the sun to pay for 'stuff' they've been told that they must have, in order to be considered a 'success', indicated by the amount of superfluous material possessions they own.

Gross consumerism and a misplaced sense of self-entitlement has eroded our core human values, to the extent that we 'connect' with (feel and sense) the REAL world around us less and less every day, pretty soon with the result that that world will no longer exist.

Anyway, I digress....

Marco.

[Pharos]

IMO convenience has flaws.

Usually it is provided by an external agency, and they are not necessarily aware of, or concerned about the user's specific needs or tastes, but are concerned about their own well being rather more.

My experience suggests that the most satisfying things in my life are those involving personal effort, commitment and endeavour, which is a very real connectedness.

Abstract forms of sound reproduction do work, and well, but they tend to the remoteness of the listener from a palpable existence, and with a zeitgeist of personal material self fulfilment we have become relatively isolated beings lacking much sense of community.

I suspect that if we had more of that we could more readily accept abstract remote forms in our lives.

[Joe]

I find all this rhetoric about 'being involved' with things slightly weird when a) we're discussing it virtually on convenient computers that (mostly) 'just work' and b) we're talking about sitting on our backsides listening to music rather than about actually doing anything.

This bit of the tas article in particular made me smile:

'I would hazard a guess that we all make certain technological choices that we feel are better, even though they may be more difficult or less sophisticated in the first analysis. Manual transmissions. Fountain pens. Espresso machines. Analog wrist watches. Sail boats. The list is endless. And we make these choices in large part because we believe they more fully involve us than an automatic transmission, a ballpoint pen, instant coffee, a digital watch, or a motorboat. They all stimulate our need to think, feel, and sense our world.'

I would hazard an alternative guess; that 'we' make these choices in part at least because we fall for the advertising meme that says, in effect, 'Look at this hand-crafted expensive Swiss watch/fountain pen/whatever. Buy one, and you will show the world how sophisticated you are.' That the writer then goes on to criticise more modern technology's 'objective shiny newness' shows that he is occupying that well-know river in Africa.

I fully agree that engagement with the real world is A Good Thing, but the idea that using a fountain pen as opposed to a ballpoint pen, or vinyl records as opposed to streaming or CDs helps you do this is simply laughable.