The vinyl illusion ?

[Marco]

I'm quite the opposite on that one! It must be accurate above all else. I'd pack this in immediately if I ever had thoughts of making stuff sound "nice". The "niceness" should come from the accurate reproduction of the original sound, allowing an open window into the performance. One should therefore be enjoying the performance itself and not the "version of the performance" delivered by a coloured system.

I completely agree! You nail it with the bit in bold; it's called HIGH-FIDELITY.

Think about it: if you attempt to 'niceify' something you think needs 'niceifying', what happens when you do the same thing to something that's already 'nice'?

Answer: the equipment responsible applies that 'niceification' to *every* recording you've got, whether it needs it or not... Not exactly ideal, is it??

Marco.

[paulf-2007]

I'm losing the will to live, accurate to what? Oh no I'm not getting into this

[magiccarpetride]

I completely agree! You nail it with the bit in bold; it's called HIGH-FIDELITY.

Think about it: if you attempt to 'niceify' something you think needs 'niceifying', what happens when you do the same thing to something that's already 'nice'?

Marco.

So people who apply EQ adjustments to various tracks they're listening to are actually raping this pristine notion of high-fidelity?

Or, people who fail to do appropriate sound treatment/speaker positioning in their listening room are guilty of disrespecting high-fidelity?

[Marco]

So people who apply EQ adjustments to various tracks they're listening to are actually raping this pristine notion of high-fidelity?

Of course, *but* if you prefer the end result, ultimately it doesn't matter, as the whole point of owning a hi-fi system is to enjoy how it sounds.

Personally, however, I've never felt the need to bastardise things in that way (as my system is uber-revealing, but also easy to listen to and relax with), but hey, each to his or her own.

Or, people who fail to do appropriate sound treatment/speaker positioning in their listening room are guilty of disrespecting high-fidelity?

Not "disrespecting"; simply not doing the job properly. At the end of the day, you'll only ever get out of something what you put into it - and that mantra applies to many things in life, not just hi-fi!

Marco.

[Macca]

I'm losing the will to live, accurate to what? Oh no I'm not getting into this

Accurate to the instructions on the medium. Which whatever it is are the same. Instructions to the amplifier to vary voltage over time. Which as pointed out already creates waveforms in the air. Which is the music. So the winner is whoever can get those waveforms to match the instructions on the medium the closest by mucking about with all the stuff in-between.

And that includes the room, so rooms and room treatment count too.

[Jimbo]

None of us has a system that sounds the same. We have all put together systems we feel sound good to us so that means none of them can be accurate apart to our own sensibilities. Even if we all had exactly the same equipment they would all sound different depending on room acoustics which have a massive influence on the sound.

If it is a given that we all have systems we enjoy then wether we like it or not that is the determining factor on how sound will be delivered from vinyl or digital. None can be accurate or neutral because they will all sound different depending on the equipment, speakers and room etc however the record, CD or digital file will be absolute. This will be the only factor that would be a constant reference for anyone's system.

If I could take a CD or piece of vinyl round to everyone's system on AOS it would sound different in every case because of the reasons I gave above. Therefore how is anyone's system neutral or accurate or uncoloured. They will all produce a different experience of the same recording.

Therefore ultimately the most important thing is to put together a system using whichever music source you think sounds the best and that will be right because that is the sound you like not what some technical windbag tells you!

[magiccarpetride]

Of course, *but* if you prefer the end result, ultimately it doesn't matter, as the whole point of owning a hi-fi system is to enjoy how it sounds.

Personally, however, I've never felt the need to bastardise things in that way (as my system is uber-revealing, but also easy to listen to and relax with), but hey, each to his or her own.



Not "disrespecting"; simply not doing the job properly. At the end of the day, you'll only ever get out of something what you put into it - and that mantra applies to many things in life, not just hi-fi!

Marco.

Yeah, I sometimes find myself 'cheating' by arranging my speakers in a way that achieves certain 'effect' that is not actually on the recording itself. For example, I like the weight, the 'whomp' and the slam of the drum kit (especially when listening to Tony Williams with Miles Davis), so I prefer to push my speakers a bit closer to the room corners. That arrangement is giving me more of the 'larger than life' imaging of the drum kit. Certainly not high-fidelity, and not how Teo Macero originally envisioned Tony's drums should be presented, but more akin to applying filters to some of my Instagram photos.

Problem?

[Marco]

None of us has a system that sounds the same. We have all put together systems we feel sound good to us so that means none of them can be accurate apart to our own sensibilities.

Absolutely. However, for me, it's an attitude thing...

There's a big difference between striving to 'accurately' reproduce the original sound (i.e. that's the goal you've set out to achieve), and arrive at the (undeniably correct) situation you've outlined, i.e: "If it is a given that we all have systems we enjoy then wether we like it or not that is the determining factor on how sound will be delivered from vinyl or digital [the key text being in bold], and having the attitude of simply creating a system that 'sounds nice', or makes the music you like listening to 'sound nice'.

And I guarantee you, that if the person adopting the former attitude has good ears and knows what he or she is doing, then the system belonging to him or her will more likely be capable of reproducing the original sound more faithfully, then the person who's only goal is to create a 'nice sound'!

I trust you can appreciate the difference?

Marco.

[Marco]

Yeah, I sometimes find myself 'cheating' by arranging my speakers in a way that achieves certain 'effect' that is not actually on the recording itself. For example, I like the weight, the 'whomp' and the slam of the drum kit (especially when listening to Tony Williams with Miles Davis), so I prefer to push my speakers a bit closer to the room corners. That arrangement is giving me more of the 'larger than life' imaging of the drum kit. Certainly not high-fidelity, and not how Teo Macero originally envisioned Tony's drums should be presented, but more akin to applying filters to some of my Instagram photos.

Problem?

No, because if that's what you like and have strived to achieve, then your system is fulfilling its primary purpose.

However, in terms of the bit in bold, also consider that because you don't know exactly what *should* be on the recording itself, the speakers supposedly being in the 'correct' position (as determined by your audiophile sensibilities), actually might not be allowing that to happen [due to the unique behaviour of the room], and so you "cheating" with the positioning has inadvertently allowed your speakers to reproduce the drum kit more faithfully...

The fact is, you simply don't know how the drum kit in question originally sounded, so how can you know how much "whomp" it should have?

Marco.

[Jimbo]

I agree, some folk just want a 'nice' sounding system however in terms of putting together a system that is accurate or plays a recording faithfully as it was intended to be heard then although that may be a goal it is one that is very difficult to achieve. We ultimately don't know what the artist heard when they recorded the music and nor do we know what the sound engineers heard when they recorded and mixed the music. Our system can really only at best play a version of the recording we feel is accurate?

My system easily distinguishes between we'll recorded and engineered recordings and poor ones. It does not make bad recordings sound nice, they still sound awful. However well mastered material sounds fabulous, not simply nice. I feel then I have a system that at least has some accuracy in presentation and resolution in that it can determine the good from the bad?

Most importantly it plays music in a way I feel sounds right and gives me pleasure.