The vinyl illusion ?

[Marco]

I find all this rhetoric about 'being involved' with things slightly weird when a) we're discussing it virtually on convenient computers that (mostly) 'just work' and b) we're talking about sitting on our backsides listening to music rather than about actually doing anything.

So you consider that having the TIME to sit back and relax listening to some music, and enjoy yourself, free at that point from anyone making demands of you, is "doing nothing"? Interesting... How about enriching your soul and making you HAPPY? Is that "nothing"?

So does the same apply when you're sitting back reading a book, listening to the radio, watching TV or indulging in any other pleasures in life? You can "sit on your backside" and still achieve something good and very worthwhile, especially if it helps you de-stress... Think about that, and what has been reported recently as being one of the biggest killers of mankind.

And some of us, I'm sure you included, actually 'do' plenty of other stuff, by getting off our backsides, which puts us in touch with the real world, gardening and foreign travel are but two for me - and I can do these things because I have earned having the required TIME to control how *I* wish to live my life!

I am not under pressure to do anything that I don't want to do, which unlike so many folks today, gives me the TIME to enjoy the simple pleasures of life, and which for me is priceless.

I would hazard an alternative guess; that 'we' make these choices in part at least because we fall for the advertising meme that says, in effect, 'Look at this hand-crafted expensive Swiss watch/fountain pen/whatever. Buy one, and you will show the world how sophisticated you are.'

Sure, and as I've said, that's why so many folks today have become hapless victims of consumerism, defined by the material possessions they own, instead of what *really* makes them who they are as people.

I fully agree that engagement with the real world is A Good Thing, but the idea that using a fountain pen as opposed to a ballpoint pen, or vinyl records as opposed to streaming or CDs helps you do this is simply laughable.

Why so? I guess it all depends on how your mind works. When was the last time that most of us used ANY kind of pen to write a letter to someone, instead of typing it up on a computer and sending it via email?

How many of us will be sending 'virtual' Christmas cards this year to our friends and family, as opposed to the real thing, hand-written with a pen and posted with a stamp, if indeed we're liable to send any at all...?

There is no doubt that that the former (and latter) is more personal and 'human', *but* it requires some TIME and EFFORT to do, which are two commodities that are sadly lacking in today's society.

And if you don't 'get' how owning and playing vinyl records engages you more with the real world (and crucially with yourself as a person), than the likes of streaming, then I think that says quite a lot about you.

When you have the time (no pun intended, wink wink), you should watch this video of Michael Fremer's, in which he neatly defines what makes vinyl records a uniquely engaging and 'human' thing:



And if I still have to explain it to you afterwards, then you really are a lost cause!

Marco.

[narabdela]

If you can categorically prove that it's nonsense, then feel free to support your view with the relevant evidence [and it needs to be conclusive], otherwise it's simply your opinion, which is no more authoritative than Jim's.

Marco.

Correct Marco. That's exactly the point I'm making.

Now, regarding indisputable relevant evidence. Please read post #349. There's a sprinkling of fact in there seasoned with a large dose of received wisdom. If that had been presented as an opinion I would have disagreed, but respected it. Presenting it as an apparent statement of fact is a whole different ballgame.

This is a really interesting thread, but when it comes to the subject in question, it's mostly opinion that's going to be chewed over. Facts are thin on the ground.

[Marco]

Correct Marco. That's exactly the point I'm making.

Now, regarding indisputable relevant evidence. Please read post #349. There's a sprinkling of fact in there seasoned with a large dose of received wisdom. If that had been presented as an opinion I would have disagreed, but respected it. Presenting it as an apparent statement of fact is a whole different ballgame.

This is a really interesting thread, but when it comes to the subject in question, it's mostly opinion that's going to be chewed over. Facts are thin on the ground.

I'm largely in agreement with you Hugh, and in that instance perhaps Jim should've inserted 'IMHO' at the beginning, or phased his post to make it more obvious that it was simply his view.

However, there's an unwritten rule on forums, certainly here (which if you weren't aware of, please bear in mind in future), that *anything* posted, unless specifically stated otherwise, or is the words of a qualified professional discussing his or her area of expertise, is simply personal opinion.

Realistically, as Jim wasn't qualified in this instance to state facts, how could it have been anything else but simply his view, albeit based on something he'd read? Anyway, it's something for you to bear in mind in future, unless we're to continually plaster our posts all over with 'IMO' or 'IMHO', when it should be taken for granted that's all it is

Marco.

[narabdela]

I'm largely in agreement with you Hugh, and in that instance perhaps Jim should've inserted 'IMHO' at the beginning, or phased his post to make it more obvious that it was simply his view.

However, there's an unwritten rule on forums, certainly here (which if you weren't aware of, please bear in mind in future), that *anything* posted, unless specifically stated otherwise, or is the words of a qualified professional discussing his or her area of expertise, is simply personal opinion.

Realistically, as Jim wasn't qualified in this instance to state facts, how could it have been anything else but simply his view, albeit based on something he'd read? Anyway, it's something for you to bear in mind in future, unless we're to continually plaster our posts all over with 'IMO' or 'IMHO', when it should be taken for granted that's all it is

Marco.

And I'm largely in agreement with your reply.(ok, I could nitpick but life's too short )

Anyhow, moving on...

[Marco]

Nice one. That's exactly how these sorts of matters should be amicably resolved

Marco.

[Haselsh1]

I fully agree that engagement with the real world is A Good Thing, but the idea that using a fountain pen as opposed to a ballpoint pen, or vinyl records as opposed to streaming or CDs helps you do this is simply laughable.

Yes, agree but then what is 'engagement with the real World'...? It kind of sounds like another statement of corporate bollocks like 'going forward'.

[RothwellAudio]

Yes, agree but then what is 'engagement with the real World'...? It kind of sounds like another statement of corporate bollocks like 'going forward'.

"Going forward"
That is truly one of most popular "means nothing but sounds quite good" phrases at the moment. I wonder if it will crop up at any of this autumn's political party conferences.

[Haselsh1]

"Going forward"
That is truly one of most popular "means nothing but sounds quite good" phrases at the moment. I wonder if it will crop up at any of this autumn's political party conferences.

I would say it is inevitable. Reminds me of when I was 'empowered'

That was utter bollocks as well.

[struth]

then there is "pushing the envelope", although why one would want to Ive no idea.

[narabdela]

Yes, agree but then what is 'engagement with the real World'...? It kind of sounds like another statement of corporate bollocks like 'going forward'.

Don't get me started on that one. I had to deal with Health Authorities in another life, and the amount of utterly vacuous oral diahorrea they could spout was mind-boggling.