Speaker users recommendations ?

[walpurgis]

Then perhaps you could explain to me why almost all professional bass drivers are around fifteen inches...?

As I said:

The limiting factor is the level of output

Big drivers are needed if large volumes of air are to be shifted, as in a 'Pro' situation. But in domestic environments, smaller drive units can produce deep enough bass. Just not at great volumes.

If you are handy, try it out! I've built quarter wave transmission line speakers tuned to say 40Hz or 45Hz using four and five inch drivers and had some pretty deep bass from them. The output rolling off below the system resonance, but still heard below that. The drive units my have 40, 50 or even 60 Hz resonance, but the acoustic line resonance is excited by them to below that and the bass is extended further.

Reflex designs often use a similar trick, with port output extending below the driver resonance and reinforcing the low bass.

[Macca]

As I said:



Big drivers are needed if large volumes of air are to be shifted, as in a 'Pro' situation. But in domestic environments, smaller drive units can produce deep enough bass. Just not at great volumes.

If you are handy, try it out! I've built quarter wave transmission line speakers tuned to say 40Hz or 45Hz using four and five inch drivers and had some pretty deep bass from them. The output rolling off below the system resonance, but still heard below that. The drive units my have 40, 50 or even 60 Hz resonance, but the acoustic line resonance is excited by them to below that and the bass is extended further.

Reflex designs often use a similar trick, with port output extending below the driver resonance and reinforcing the low bass.

But then you get 'soft' bass from the port. I'm with Sean on this; yes you can get measurably low frequencies from a small driver, or an array of them, but subjectivly it isn't the same as using a big driver. You don't get the same slam or impact and it never sounds as effortless as it should.

[struth]

Think deep bass is overrated tbh. Its not really natural either. better with just enough imo. a tannoy 10 or 12 goes way low enough.

[Macca]

All the ambience of the recording is in the deep bass, even if the instruments used on the recording don't go that low. My current speakers are -3dB at 40Hz and they don't go low enough to reproduce all that soundstage ambience, the difference is obvious compared to the speakers I have had that go lower.

[steve-z]

Yes, I do agree big bass drivers can shift more air but the bigger (and heavier) cones tend to be more prone to overshoot so you tend to lose accuracy, also ports and transmission lines do not necessarily produce soft bass if they’re designed correctly and tuned properly, certainly in a domestic situation smaller and lighter drive units give better control at low frequencies at normal listening levels and are less likely to cause room resonance problems, personally I’d go for tightness and control over uncontrolled weight any day.


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[walpurgis]

The same physical 'rules' apply to large and smaller speaker drive units. They have to possess adequate self damping from the motor (magnet/coil), to control the air mass being driven.

You can see differing ways in which the magnet power is chosen to suit purposes in say the KEF Chorale, where the B200 driver has a small magnet. This is because the air in the sealed system acts like a spring and restores the cone to its starting position without much electrical energy being needed.

Conversely, speakers like Lowthers employ huge magnets, in order to provide sufficient damping for the air mass in their folded horns. In the case of Lowthers, powerful magnets also give a rising response, allowing the mid/top output to match the horn reinforced lower output.

[steve-z]

Although it’s been a long time since this thread was active I thought it was worthy of an update particularly as the vast majority of the gear in both of my systems has been replaced, speakers in particular which are now the first two in the Q Acoustics Concept series the 20s in the bedroom setup, driven by a European spec Onkyo A9010, and the 40s in my main setup with the CXA60.
The Jordan’s I had which I thought were perfect 2 years ago turned out not to be and they have been outclassed by the QA Concept 40s, admittedly at a slightly higher price. Although both sets of QAs use 5” bass drivers, the quality and quantity of bass relative to cabinet size of both is extremely good albeit in the 40s with a doubling of driver count. I’ve now owned the 20s for just over a year and the 40s for 9 months and to all intents and purposes I’ve reached my audio nirvana so I can say goodbye to upgrading. The Concept 20/Onkyo setup for under £500 I think is pretty unbeatable at the price and would pass muster as someone’s primary setup particularly as the EU spec amp comes with a Wolfson DAC and a pretty decent MM phono stage.
Both sets of speakers have benefited from bi-wiring, Audioquest FLX SLiP 14/4 cable giving very good performance for not much money.
Endgame for me I think


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[fatmarley]

Yes, I do agree big bass drivers can shift more air but the bigger (and heavier) cones tend to be more prone to overshoot so you tend to lose accuracy, certainly in a domestic situation smaller and lighter drive units give better control at low frequencies at normal listening levels and are less likely to cause room resonance problems, personally I’d go for tightness and control over uncontrolled weight any day.

I can see why anyone would think that, but it's not the case at all. There's no reason why a bigger and heavier cone can't have a bigger and heavier magnet, so the power to weight ratio stays the same. Bigger speakers often do produce deeper bass that can cause problems with room modes but again there's no reason why a bigger bass driver can't produce the same or even less low frequency extension than a smaller bass driver.