Digital vs. LP

[Jimbo]

FWIW to be honest nothing beats the listening experience to tell you if something sounds good or not. You can study digital audio infinitum via internet articles and forums but ultimately listening with your own ears is really the only way to pick your way through the technical worm holes created by all things digital. This is what i have done and not taken too much interest in the technicalities although I have read a great deal but arguing one system, piece of kit or method is better than another really means nothing until you have first hand experience.

I have been lucky and heard some great stuff and the evolution of really good digital audio but it reminds me of Digital photography, you know how it went 2mp camera then 4mp, 20mp. Then it was all about sensors etc finally we ended up with some amazing digital photographic equipment and thats just in a phone!

Similarly I have been following digital systems as they have evolved and some are just about there in my opinion of course. The learning curve has been steep, after all vinyl took about 60 years or more to get to a really great level of audio quality so I am not surprised digital has taken some time to mature and the techies have unravelled what is important and what needed to be fixed.

I am in the same boat as the OP and would like to put a system together that would be as good as or a match to my vinyl and hopefully soon I will but it certainly will not involve a CDP and will be File based probably with ROON running the software.

[Ali Tait]

That's where I am now with Roon and Tidal through a Mytek dac.

[Jimbo]

That's where I am now with Roon and Tidal through a Mytek dac.

I can imagine that a killer combination Ali.

[Macca]

Similarly I have been following digital systems as they have evolved and some are just about there in my opinion of course. The learning curve has been steep, after all vinyl took about 60 years or more to get to a really great level of audio quality so I am not surprised digital has taken some time to mature and the techies have unravelled what is important and what needed to be fixed.

.

But if this were true then old CD players and DACS like the Sony RS c0mbo Marco has, the Technics SLP1200 broadcast I used to have, would sound way off the pace now, but they don't. They are still quite astonishing in their ability to reveal the recording. Not saying there is not better now, but there is a limit to what can be achieved in terms of 'perfect' replay before we get beyond the replay technology and into tailoring the sound to subjective tastes, and IMO that limit was reached a long time ago.

[Stratmangler]

But if this were true then old CD players and DACS like the Sony RS c0mbo Marco has, the Technics SLP1200 broadcast I used to have, would sound way off the pace now, but they don't. They are still quite astonishing in their ability to reveal the recording. Not saying there is not better now, but there is a limit to what can be achieved in terms of 'perfect' replay before we get beyond the replay technology and into tailoring the sound to subjective tastes, and IMO that limit was reached a long time ago.

There probably isn't anything better now wrt CD replay.

[Ali Tait]

I can imagine that a killer combination Ali.

I'm happy with it, though a new phono stage coming next week might change my mind. :-)

[Marco]

But if this were true then old CD players and DACS like the Sony RS c0mbo Marco has, the Technics SLP1200 broadcast I used to have, would sound way off the pace now, but they don't. They are still quite astonishing in their ability to reveal the recording. Not saying there is not better now, but there is a limit to what can be achieved in terms of 'perfect' replay before we get beyond the replay technology and into tailoring the sound to subjective tastes, and IMO that limit was reached a long time ago.

Indeed... So far (I've yet to hear the Chord DAVE that Jim's raving about), I simply haven't experienced any significant sonic advances [note that this is different from technological advances in certain areas, which I agree have happened] from today's digital audio, compared with what I enjoy everyday from my 30-year old Sony combo, albeit upgraded in key areas with the best modern components.

I could probably make a small fortune alone, from selling all the (highly sought after and rare as hen's teeth now) Black Gate capacitors, which the DAC is chock-full of inside!

Therefore, in short, the technological advances that have undoubtedly been made today, in certain areas of digital audio, haven't yet resulted in making the best of old technology sound fundamentally broken, which is what you're saying, and yes I agree.

I wonder, for example, whether Chord have taken as much trouble with the PSU arrangements inside the DAVE, and spent as much money on them, as they have on its up-sampling technology? And therefore, in essence, taking one step forward and two steps back, which in my experience is the case with a lot of new equipment (and speakers), simply because, unlike some of the 'statement' products from the likes of Sony, back in the day, the vast majority of is still built to a cost.

Perhaps that's a project for the next NEBO? Someone bring a Chord DAVE along and a partnering top-notch FBA source, and I'll bring my Sony CDP and DAC, and we'll play the same digitally mastered music (whether on CD or file) on the respective compatible devices, through the same system, and assess the results.

I, for one, would find such a comparison very interesting indeed, and possibly also rather enlightening....

Marco.

[Marco]

Why not just say if it is relevant? Yes, please do tell.

If you ain't using those Sonys anymore I will find a home for them. I remember the tape hiss on ZZ Top's First album. Effectively we were listening to the RTR machine that recorded the master, not a cd player.

Lol... No, they're not going anywhere. If you read what I wrote earlier in one of my posts, you'll have seen a strong hint as to what is my ultimate preference, and it's still the Sonys. Now undoubtedly part of that is down to cost, in terms of how much money I've invested in them compared with my streaming source.

However, I can tell you that despite costing a fraction of my CDP and DAC, the RPi streaming/FBA set up still achieves around 90% of the performance of the Sonys, which provides an indication of how good it is in comparison, and that that final 10% or so of performance, with digital replay, is what costs most to obtain - and where the real magic lies.

I've also compared the RPi set up to considerably more expensive FBA sources/DACs, and not felt short changed by it, not only in my system but in others that are familiar, so it's not the case that I've simply not heard anything better, but of course that's not to say it doesn't exist.

For the meantime, however, my current digital benchmark is still my modified Sony CDP and DAC. However, that situation may change when I'll shortly get to hear a friend's Linn Klimax Renew DS, see here: http://dynamicheadroom.audio/gear-re...klimax-review/ which he's raving about.

As ever, I remain openminded to embracing new technology that wholly and fundamentally leaves the Sonys for dead, so if or when that happens, you'll be amongst the first to know

Marco.

[Jimbo]

The PSU and analogue output stage are all maxed out in DAVE with great care taken in every area to isolate noise and RFI. The full technical aspects of DAVE are extensive but for a simple account just check out the CHORD site. For a couple of days reading if you are that way inclined check out

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chor...s-dave.766517/

Rob Watts - DAVEs designer is very interactive on this Post. However no matter what is written the equipment needs to be listened too to really to appreciate what it does. I feel a lot of folks would be shocked if they were thinking it sounded like CD

I have mentioned DAVE as it is the best DAC I have ever heard but Hugo is also amazing and the Hugo TT. The only reason I have illustrated my thoughts on digital using DAVE as an example is because it fundamentally changed my views on what digital audio could achieve. I have heard some very expensive CD players put up against this device and frankly they just sound like CD. I have never heard some of the old school CD players Macca and Marco suggest are very good so I cannot comment on them but if they were so good why are they no longer manufactured or the companies manufacturing them producing something that good. Maybe its because many folk have moved away from CD and stream or use FBA but surely if there was an audiophile market still out there for these CDP they would still be sold?

DAVE is simply out of my budget but in the set up I have heard it is a benchmark for what can be achieved with digital audio currently and yes the Blu 2 and m-scaler technology does seem to keep CD alive. However even at a much more comfortable price level i.e. Hugo 2 via a file based system still easily surpasses CD in my book.

[Edward]

Other than good speakers and amps my biggest jump in sound quality (FBA system) was going from a well regarded Micromega MyDAC to a non oversampling Chevron DAC. This brought things to a much more organic sounding naturalness. I tried the Chord Dave at some show and whilst the sound was great I did have a feeling of 'meh'. But perhaps it was reverse bias in operation? I did not want such an expensive piece of kit to sound good? A DAC I did try a few months ago and was most impressed by was the RME ADI-2. This simply just got on with the job in hand in a very professional way - and far cheaper than the DAVE. So that or one of Chevron's latest DACs is probably next on my path to audio nirvana. I mulled over the idea of using a LPSU for the FBA kit but was apparently convinced it would make no difference.