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Thread: Digital vs. LP

  1. #111
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    I think I have commensurably similar digital and analogue front ends feeding my back end stereo. I've spent a lot of time tweaking my digital front end to make it approximate the warm and relaxed sound that a good analogue does, and I think I've largely succeeded.

    When I compare my digital to analogue playback, the digital sounds much cleaner than the analogue. Almost clinically clean, and the presentation is neat and effortless. The analogue, on the other hand, sounds dirtier, messier, with some garlic on top. But it's definitely isn't lifeless -- it adds a lot of whomp and kick to the music. Simply put, on my system analogue swings much harder than digital.
    Same here. I've a lot of the same albums on cd as well as on vinyl. Even accounting for mastering differences the vinyl sound grabs me more, but at the same time when I have heard playback in studios it is closer to how digital presents; as you say, clean and neat. It does, however have a 'rawness' or an 'openness' in the studio that my digital end doesn't quite manage. It still grabs you but in a different way. Marco's Sony's present it like in the studio. I'd urge anyone who thinks digital is a second cousin to vinyl, or that red book cd is at all compromised, should ask him if they can go round for a listen.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  2. #112
    Join Date: Aug 2012

    Location: Hartlepool UK

    Posts: 1,640
    I'm Alan.

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    Like others have said I have good sources in both digital and analogue so quite happy with either TBH
    But as everyone knows they are both blown away by tape on R2R so there yes
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMV...EcIHRrw/videos
    Alan
    Turntable - Garrard 401/Jelco 750L/Ortofon Kontrapunkt B, Pioneer PLC 590, Micro Sieki MA505 , Denon DL103R - DIY Paradise Phono stage - Reel 2 Reel Studer A810, Otari MX55,Tascam BR20, Revox A77, B77, PR99, TEAC X1000 & 3440, Digital HTPC / Young Dac - Preamp - DIY B4, 821, Power Amp's DIY Avondale NCC300 Mono Block, Speakers Wilmslow Kit Volt BM220.8 / Scanspeak D2905/9500

  3. #113
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Same here. I've a lot of the same albums on cd as well as on vinyl. Even accounting for mastering differences the vinyl sound grabs me more, but at the same time when I have heard playback in studios it is closer to how digital presents; as you say, clean and neat. It does, however have a 'rawness' or an 'openness' in the studio that my digital end doesn't quite manage. It still grabs you but in a different way. Marco's Sony's present it like in the studio. I'd urge anyone who thinks digital is a second cousin to vinyl, or that red book cd is at all compromised, should ask him if they can go round for a listen.
    They'll have to wait first until the 'broom cupboard' has been emptied of an assortment of kitchen paraphernalia, lol, and the place gets back to normal, but thanks! New kitchen being delivered and fitted this week - at long fooking last!!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #114
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

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    In WW2 they built the Mulberry harbours in less time than it has taken to do your kitchen. This is why I can't be bothered to sort mine.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  5. #115
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    I get the clean and clear sound of digital and it can sound full bloodied like vinyl but only with well mastered recordings. I think the clean sound is a result of a very low noise floor and a lack of dust My vinyl system does sound very clean and clear but a bit muddy in the bass. One of the key aspects I find however between vinyl and digital is the dimensional issue. Vinyl does 3D so easily and I get lots of acoustic information around the performers and instruments. I have heard this get better and better with the latest DACs but quite often this information is either missing or severely curtailed.

    No doubt digital playback has got a great deal better especially as the issues of noise pollution in the system and electronics has been identified and sorted with carefull design and routing particularly in FBA systems. Cables including CAT7 still transmit electrical noise but this can be negated using devices like a TP-LINK MC200CM Gigabit Media Converter between NAS drives and media players. The noise generated from computers such as lap tops can be improved on by using devices like the Sonore MicroRendu.

    Although I still feel vinyl sounds more inviting, musical and easy to listen too I do feel digital has now evolved to a point it is definitely a worthwhile alternative or addition to a system. The interesting thing I have found is that as it has improved it sounds more and more analogue which is a good thing in my book.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  6. #116
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Same here. I've a lot of the same albums on cd as well as on vinyl. Even accounting for mastering differences the vinyl sound grabs me more, but at the same time when I have heard playback in studios it is closer to how digital presents; as you say, clean and neat. It does, however have a 'rawness' or an 'openness' in the studio that my digital end doesn't quite manage. It still grabs you but in a different way. Marco's Sony's present it like in the studio. I'd urge anyone who thinks digital is a second cousin to vinyl, or that red book cd is at all compromised, should ask him if they can go round for a listen.
    True. I was recently at the local classical record store (selling mostly vinyl), and they were playing some string quartet by Beethoven. The string instruments were so full of life, and the presence was so uncanny, that I had to ask the sales staff which LP are they spinning. Much to my surprise, they were playing a CD!
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  7. #117
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I get the clean and clear sound of digital and it can sound full bloodied like vinyl but only with well mastered recordings. I think the clean sound is a result of a very low noise floor and a lack of dust My vinyl system does sound very clean and clear but a bit muddy in the bass. One of the key aspects I find however between vinyl and digital is the dimensional issue. Vinyl does 3D so easily and I get lots of acoustic information around the performers and instruments. I have heard this get better and better with the latest DACs but quite often this information is either missing or severely curtailed.

    No doubt digital playback has got a great deal better especially as the issues of noise pollution in the system and electronics has been identified and sorted with carefull design and routing particularly in FBA systems. Cables including CAT7 still transmit electrical noise but this can be negated using devices like a TP-LINK MC200CM Gigabit Media Converter between NAS drives and media players. The noise generated from computers such as lap tops can be improved on by using devices like the Sonore MicroRendu.

    Although I still feel vinyl sounds more inviting, musical and easy to listen too I do feel digital has now evolved to a point it is definitely a worthwhile alternative or addition to a system. The interesting thing I have found is that as it has improved it sounds more and more analogue which is a good thing in my book.
    Interesting observations, and I concur. As I was doing the tweaks to my digital front end, I was noticing that the biggest steps towards analogue-like sound were being achieved whenever I would successfully eliminate some of the electrical noises. The biggest improvement I've ever noticed was when I switched from linear power supply for my DAC to powering it via rechargeable ANKAKA battery. That was a jaw dropping improvement.
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  8. #118
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    Yes using really good linear power supplies with DACs , servers etc can dramatically improve SQ. Noise is certainly a big issue with digital. I think the simpler set up the better but this is not always achievable if you need back up devices and everything you have in the system from the router to the server adds noise.

    Bit perfect files also a prerequisite and it helps if you have a really great DAC!
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  9. #119
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    In WW2 they built the Mulberry harbours in less time than it has taken to do your kitchen. This is why I can't be bothered to sort mine.
    Lol... It's what happens when you go for a compete gut out, then start again from an empty shell with something that's bespoke built - and also when you're *extremely fussy* about getting every last detail just right!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #120
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Although I still feel vinyl sounds more inviting, musical and easy to listen too I do feel digital has now evolved to a point it is definitely a worthwhile alternative or addition to a system. The interesting thing I have found is that as it has improved it sounds more and more analogue which is a good thing in my book.
    Or not "evolved", like mine, since 1989!

    For me, my turntable has evolved into sounding more like a really good CD player [stable and effortless with very low coloration], but with the inherent musical qualities of analogue.

    Well, you've heard my T/T, Jim, at NEBO. My CD player largely sounds like a digital version of that

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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