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Thread: CROWN Could the ultimate system (inc. ES 212) be all Crown?

  1. #11
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,173
    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    You lot obviously don't live with these old 'D' series every day and compare them with good contemporary fare. I don't care, I have modern experiences of a good DC300A mk1.5 (just before the mk2 version) and I'm happy with what I hear from it. I go home and put on the D-60's with a smile on my face and then dip into the emotion totally with the NVA's I have here.

    I was put off buying a DC300A twenty years ago 'because it's harsh!' Like fegg is it!
    Harsh no. Grainy yes.
    Arkless Electronics-Engineered to be better. Tel. 01670 530674 (after 1pm)

    Modded Thorens TD150, Audio Technica AT-1005 MkII, Technics EPC-300MC, Arkless Hybrid MC phono stage, Arkless passive pre, Arkless 50WPC Class A SS power amp, (or) Arkless modded Leak Stereo 20, Modded Kef Reference 105/3's
    ReVox PR99, Studer B62, Ferrograph Series 7, Tandberg TCD440, Hitachi FT-5500MkI, also FT-5500MkII
    Digital: Yamaha CDR-HD1500 (Digital Swiss army knife-CD recorder, player, hard drive, DAC and ADC in one), PC files via 24/96 sound card and SPDIF, modded Philips CD850, modded Philips CD104, modded DPA Little Bit DAC. Sennheiser HD580 cans with Arkless Headphone amp.
    Cables- free interconnects that come with CD players, mains leads from B&Q, dead kettles etc, extension leads from Tesco

  2. #12
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

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    I'm David.

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    The 300A mk1.5 I know well is summed up by it's owner who's well known here, as 'woolly and fat,' and who am I to argue?

    I'll keep it on the bucket list though.
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  3. #13
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,853
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    The D-60s are the only Crown/Amcron amp I would consider buying. And I would be interested to hear the IC-150 preamp.

    Now their reel-to-reel machines is a different matter! They do look the biz!
    Barry

  4. #14
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    And I would be interested to hear the IC-150 preamp
    Had one for a years as a back-up pre-amp. It wasn't great. Coarse top end.

    Second best American pre-amp I've owned was the Rappaport Pre-2. That was extremely good, just pipped by the Forte Model 2.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  5. #15
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

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    I'm David.

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    Once again, I'm out of step with all you audio enthusiasts. I just want to share this and then I'll shut up and fade into the woodwork again...

    Take a source, either with a variable output or play a fixed output source via short leads into a power amp with gain controls - they don't all sound pants! Have a listen and then insert a preamp of your choice into the system, again with short interconnects (so you can't blame them), match volume levels as closely as you can and see if you can hear a difference... Put it this way, in addition to the passive preamps I have here (commercial and home-made), The IC-150's (I was given two) were kept and a much loved Croft and AVI were sold instead.

    One last thing when ancient products are discussed and I think this is relevant to us all here - These things are OLD and will need attention at some point. I doubt they were ever meant to last much beyond ten to fifteen years and here I am, blathering on dementedly about FORTY FIVE YEAR OLD amps that are original except for the odd cap change here and there.

    If truth to source is the function of a preamp, an IC-150 isn't at all harsh to me. As supplied it's slightly sat-on sonically and measured distortion is only low when the thing is thrashed (all in the manual available online if anyone gives a shit), but these things can be mostly sorted with not too much work (in my case, four 1uF caps and two OPA134's each). The phono stage offers good headroom and adjustable gain. It's not as 'organic' sounding as my NVA Phono 2/PSU which would offer greater dynamic headroom with a top vinyl source, but it's all there and only sounds hashy with a hashy sounding cartridge. Regarding the life-cycle of the product, one of my IC-150's has started with background rustles and quiet pops on the phono stage which I'll have to look at The pots are also crap now but there are ways round it, especially with the volume one with 'loudness' tappings.

    http://kenrockwell.com/audio/crown/ic-150.htm

    Barry, the D-60 remains a goodie of its time if it's not asked to drive 4 ohm average loads, but the D-150A had more headroom. Is the 300A any better than a Quad 606 series amp? Maybe not overall, but I still love it.

    I'm sorry everyone. I'm lost in the past and should fade back into it. I still think these old amps were good (I never knew the tape decks but they were always discussed in hushed tones by the staff in the shop back then) and KJ Watford were one of only three UK domestic outlets selling the brand in the mid 70's, the others being REW and a dealer in Sheffield (I apologise for forgetting their name).
    Last edited by DSJR; 07-09-2017 at 11:39.
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  6. #16
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,853
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    I always enjoy reading your musings on, what is now, vintage equipment Dave. You have/had extensive "hands on" experience, which is far more instructive and useful than that of others who may have had only had a short-term (and often poorly arranged) demonstration at a dealer.

    I'm sure the op-amp in the IC-150 benefits from an upgrade (provided one can still obtain devices with 8 leadout wires!). And I expect the 'loudness' facility could be bypassed.
    Barry

  7. #17
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

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    I'm David.

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    The loudness is always bypassed by the switch, but the tappings are there on the supplied pot (and equivalent tappings on the attenuator KR refers to - and I have ready to go when needed) and it's nice for me to keep the facilities for posterity. By the way, Crown knew the volume pot was pants in terms of channel balance when new and they added extra balancing presets for very low volume settings, one of which I've needed to tweak to keep balance within reason with volume less than half way up (using headphones for example).

    You know, when I look at the components used - mostly 10% carbon resistors in these early samples, I'm stunned they work at all as well as I feel they do. Critical components WERE matched and 1% resistors used where necessary and these components were very expensive indeed back in the mid 70's - how spoiled are we today?

    It's loudspeakers where I've been pulled up short. When new, some speakers could fizz and spit nastily and examples which come to mind are Mission 752, 753 and original 770, Rogers LS7-T and B&W601 in original form. The latter three I heard at well over ten years old and they were mellow and almost sweet by then (the 770's were 25 years old) and what really pulled me up short were the 752, which suffered boom if too near a wall and fizz if too far away. Thirty years on, the 752 is now a warm toned and perfectly behaved animal and a recent new owner of a used pair couldn't understand what the fegg I was going on about as regards the high frequencies. Maybe it's dried out ferro-fluid, I don't know, but who cares now if they sound fine..
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

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