what is the secret?

[narabdela]

So many contrary positions. So little time..............

Indeed. I gave up the will to live halfway through post #9.

[oldius]

We are a niche market and becoming more so. To protect profitability, margins have to grow as sales decline. This forces up the price.

This is simplistic but the price of new, quality hifi has risen dramatically in most, but not all cases.

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[Marco]

So many contrary positions. So little time..............

Really? I see more evidence of consensus than contrary positions...

I think most of us agree that the best equipment from small, specialist companies has the potential to sound better than some significantly more expensive 'big-name' commercial equipment, that badge snobbery exists, and you pay for it, and that out of control box-swapping is both bad for your head and bank balance!

Not too many contrary positions there, I wouldn't have thought?

Marco.

[Marco]

We are a niche market and becoming more so. To protect profitability, margins have to grow as sales decline. This forces up the price.

This is simplistic but the price of new, quality hifi has risen dramatically in most, but not all cases.

...which is why going the quality vintage route makes sense, as that's often where the highest SPPV lies. You know that full well yourself. I also agree with your first sentence, but that doesn't mean we just have to sit back and 'suck it up'!

Marco.

[The Black Adder]

It gets expensive because generally really expensive equipment becomes more bespoke in design and becomes more artistic and bespoke... but the innards or the internal design are probably nothing new... parts are probably re-cased to make them look pretty and bespoke.

People who can afford such things buy them because they can, some appreciate it and some do not and buy because they want to have something different to someone else... social climbing leverage?

This world is now firmly based on snobbery and it's getting worse. I'm old skool... I would question any bit of kit over a certain price. - or is that just the old chestnut called 'common sense'?

[Marco]

Indeed... With commercially produced 'big name' gear, you might own a £10k or £20k amplifier, for example, but only in terms of the price you've paid. You certainly haven't ended up with £10k or £20k's worth of sound quality [or anything like it], that's for sure!

Marco.

[struth]

well, john wood & guy sergeant amps have "bespoke heavyweight transformers" and their amps don't cost an arm and a leg and produce a high quality sound.

" labour, usually in this country eaning higher wages. level of fit n finish, plus the 'addons from all the middlemen" ....all costs dough!
Yes, but not necessarily higher quality parts or 'better designs' than those found in J.WOOD & Guy Sergeant amps.

You seem to feel J Wood and Guy Sergeant amps are the pinnacle of amp development and are both big companies

[jollyfix]

Indeed... With commercially produced 'big name' gear, you might own a £10k or £20k amplifier, for example, but only in terms of the price you've paid. You certainly haven't ended up with £10k or £20k's worth of sound quality [or anything like it], that's for sure!

Marco.

Spot on Marco.

[Yomanze]

There are four types of expensive amps: some are just expensive because of the badge & having to recoup huge marketing budgets, others to recoup huge R&D, tooling etc. budgets (I bet Devialet were expensive to develop), some are expensive because of super-expensive casework and transformers, others are expensive to keep demand down. It's that simple really, no secrets.

[The Black Adder]

There are four types of expensive amps: some are just expensive because of the badge & having to recoup huge marketing budgets, others to recoup huge R&D, tooling etc. budgets (I bet Devialet were expensive to develop), some are expensive because of super-expensive casework and transformers, others are expensive to keep demand down. It's that simple really, no secrets.

... I wouldn't be so sure of that. Any company would cut costs where they can regardless of how 'exclusive' they are.

If they can get away with it (which let's be honest they are in the best position to do so) they will because nobody would risk cracking hermetically sealed £10k, £20+ lids of kit to find out.