what is the secret?

[Marco]

There are four types of expensive amps: some are just expensive because of the badge & having to recoup huge marketing budgets, others to recoup huge R&D, tooling etc. budgets (I bet Devialet were expensive to develop), some are expensive because of super-expensive casework and transformers, others are expensive to keep demand down. It's that simple really, no secrets.

Yes, but the harder part is identifying which from which!

The "super-expensive transformers", for example (especially in a valve amp), would interest me rather more than any "super-expensive casework", as for me hi-fi equipment is simply a functional tool, to perform a particular task, not an ornament to be admired.

Marco.

[Yomanze]

... I wouldn't be so sure of that. Any company would cut costs where they can regardless of how 'exclusive' they are.

If they can get away with it (which let's be honest they are in the best position to do so) they will because nobody would risk cracking hermetically sealed £10k, £20+ lids of kit to find out.

Ah yes, I agree & forgot to mention the 5th one. I wouldn't say any company though, but most big companies, yes.

[Macca]

(I bet Devialet were expensive to develop)

I've seen this suggested a few times now and I still can't work out why. It doesn't use any new or ground-breaking technology, it might have a fancy case but it's just solid state amp and a DAC in the same box. Advertising campaigns are expensive but I don't count that in with 'development'.

The reality is that sound reproduction is age old tech, the idea that these companies have huge labs full of white coated scientists and technicians beavering away making new discoveries and advancing the frontiers is absurd, but I suppose people want to believe so they do.

[Joe]

A sort-of contrary position; products from one-man cottage manufacturers are vulnerable to the one man in question being out of action for whatever reason; ISTR a case like that being discussed here a while back. A big company may be better if a product goes wrong.

[Arkless Electronics]

Yes, but the harder part is identifying which from which!

The "super-expensive transformers", for example (especially in a valve amp), would interest me rather more than any "super-expensive casework", as for me hi-fi equipment is simply a functional tool, to perform a particular task, not an ornament to be admired.

Marco.

Would that more people took this attitude.... Unfortunately many people (most maybe?) do seem to buy with their eyes and many companies have well understood this for years. I repaired a pair of cheap (£500) monoblocks a few weeks ago, made by a Wembley based company.... Externally we're talking a pair of cylindrical cases which have the appearance of carved out of solid... and indeed most of the money has gone on the casework! Remove the innards and it's OMG! Worse than a 3020 in build quality and component quality! Everything was as cheap as it's possible to get and the transformers tiny...

I have mooted the idea a few times of building gear in cheapo casework to allow the money to be spent on the innards where it matters... the consensus view of this seems to be "oh no if I'm paying £600 for a phono stage I want it to look the part..." OK well it's just gone up to £800 for the same thing in a nice box then.... That's how it works. People are more concerned with the appearance of quality rather than actual quality so it seems.

I've told this tale a few times but it is pertinent to this so here it is again... When I finished the design of the Alchemist Axiom integrated amp and first samples in the intended pretty bling casework were built up we had a visit from the companies biggest customer by far... a far east importer and distributor from IIRC Singapore (complete with two menservants who followed him around and lit his cigarettes for him etc!!). I was eager to demonstrate "my baby" but I was brusquely told by him that he had no interest in what it sounded like!! He then went into detailed talks with the casework designer demanding even more bling, gold plated knobs etc etc... which he got of course and smaller smoothing caps were fitted to the amps to help pay for this... THAT's how it works in practice

[Arkless Electronics]

I've seen this suggested a few times now and I still can't work out why. It doesn't use any new or ground-breaking technology, it might have a fancy case but it's just solid state amp and a DAC in the same box. Advertising campaigns are expensive but I don't count that in with 'development'.

The reality is that sound reproduction is age old tech, the idea that these companies have huge labs full of white coated scientists and technicians beavering away making new discoveries and advancing the frontiers is absurd, but I suppose people want to believe so they do.

I disagree.

[struth]

most folk want both, but only some want to pay for it new. most would rather get 2nd hand, which is fair enough except that if not enough buy new then price of secondhand gear goes up, and therefor the new stuff will likely follow. Old market term of what the market will stand. Thats why many things here are dearer than the USA, and say India is much cheaper for same thing...no point in McDonalds charging a UK price for a ready meal in India as no-one will afford it

[Macca]

I disagree.

It's all very well you disagreeing but if you don't explain why you disagree then there wasn't much point in disagreeing.

[Arkless Electronics]

It's all very well you disagreeing but if you don't explain why you disagree then there wasn't much point in disagreeing.

Exactly the answer I expected I disagree that disagreeing requires an explanation of the disagreement for the disagreement to be relevant!

In other words I can't be arsed and I don't want to turn this into a discussion on Devialet

[struth]

Exactly the answer I expected I disagree that disagreeing requires an explanation of the disagreement for the disagreement to be relevant!

In other words I can't be arsed and I don't want to turn this into a discussion on Devialet

I disagree.... I think?