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Thread: Bass and phase issue with NS1000Ms

  1. #1
    Join Date: Oct 2015

    Location: KL, Malaysia

    Posts: 258
    I'm shahrin.

    Default Bass and phase issue with NS1000Ms

    I ve been using my NS1000 s for the last 3 to 4 years, to my huge delight.
    I got them used of course and i think the previous owner brought them in from Japan.
    Recently i ve noticed, using two integrated amps in good condition, that bass is better when the balance knob is turned fully one way or the other.
    ie when only one speaker is receiving signal the bass is better than when the balance knob is in the 'middle'.

    I checked the wiring - polarity correct, apparently 'in phase'.

    I reversed the polarity to the RT speaker.
    Bass clearly became stronger, and overall the sound was quite pleasant.

    I pulled out HFS 75 and confirmed that in this state my system was out of phase.
    This has me puzzled.

    Could the bass unit of one speaker be wired out of phase?

    Must add that I have generally been happy with the overall bass performance of my NS1000 s ( normally wired)
    but this accentuation of bass when the polarity to one speaker is reversed putting the system out of phase does not make sense to me.
    Surely the bass should be worse overall

    What could be going on ?
    Thorens td124 mk2 / Bokrand AB309/ 103r
    SLAT L75 / Jelco 850S / AT VM740ML
    Marantz CD63 / Bluesound / Musical Paradise 701 II/ ESP 500Hz eXO / PL Prologue 4 and Nord 1UP amps / JK Wynn semiactive NS1000 upgrade
    /ESP 700 Hz eXO / JBL 4333 components

  2. #2
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quite possible one bass driver is wired wrongly, thee things happen. Only way to be sure is to get inside and take a look.

    Otherwise it could be an issue with a component on the crossover.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Oct 2015

    Location: KL, Malaysia

    Posts: 258
    I'm shahrin.

    Default

    Thanks Martin
    It is odd what i have found here
    It doesnt make sense - something must be wrongly wired.
    Thorens td124 mk2 / Bokrand AB309/ 103r
    SLAT L75 / Jelco 850S / AT VM740ML
    Marantz CD63 / Bluesound / Musical Paradise 701 II/ ESP 500Hz eXO / PL Prologue 4 and Nord 1UP amps / JK Wynn semiactive NS1000 upgrade
    /ESP 700 Hz eXO / JBL 4333 components

  4. #4
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    Easy to check with an AA battery and some wire. Put some short pieces of wire on the terminals, dab them onto the battery positive onto the positive terminal and negative likewise. Note whether the driver goes in or out. Repeat for the other speaker. If they both go the same way they are wired the same.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  5. #5
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    It isn't unknown for speakers to leave the factory with the positive connection marked negative, and the negative as positive. Makes setting up speakers so much more interesting.

    Try Ali's tip, will require a methodical process but you should locate where the error is at some point along it.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    If you try the battery trick with Tannoy 'pepperpot' dual concentrics, the bass cone moves backwards with the + of the battery connected to the + of the speaker, not forwards as you'd expect.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  7. #7
    Join Date: Oct 2015

    Location: KL, Malaysia

    Posts: 258
    I'm shahrin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    Easy to check with an AA battery and some wire. Put some short pieces of wire on the terminals, dab them onto the battery positive onto the positive terminal and negative likewise. Note whether the driver goes in or out. Repeat for the other speaker. If they both go the same way they are wired the same.
    Thanks Ali
    No way 1.5V dc will damage speaker drive units?

    U guys agree with me that reversing the polarity on one speaker should not accentuate bass ( assuming all correct wiring inside spkr and with source, interconnects and amp) ?
    ie in this out of phase situation bass should diminish and stereo imagery is lost.
    Last edited by drSM; 24-08-2017 at 01:02.
    Thorens td124 mk2 / Bokrand AB309/ 103r
    SLAT L75 / Jelco 850S / AT VM740ML
    Marantz CD63 / Bluesound / Musical Paradise 701 II/ ESP 500Hz eXO / PL Prologue 4 and Nord 1UP amps / JK Wynn semiactive NS1000 upgrade
    /ESP 700 Hz eXO / JBL 4333 components

  8. #8
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    Will be fine if you just dab it on momentarily. Hold the neg on the battery terminal and just dab the pos on while looking at the driver.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  9. #9
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 6,089
    I'm Alan.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drSM View Post
    U guys agree with me that reversing the polarity on one speaker should not accentuate bass ( assuming all correct wiring inside spkr and with source, interconnects and amp) ?
    ie in this out of phase situation bass should diminish and stereo imagery is lost.
    Absolutely correct Shahrin. Without a doubt one woofer is wired incorrectly.

    Another easy check is to position the speakers very close to one another and facing each other. Play some music and if one is out of phase then there will be virtually no bass, as one speaker output cancels the other.


  10. #10
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 4,737
    I'm jamie.

    Default

    I have a Yamaha wiring diagram for the ns1000, I will sent it too you to check later if you like
    My System
    John Wood KT88 Amp.
    Paradise Phono Stage
    Sony TTS-8000 Turntable.
    PMAT-1010 MK6 Tonearm.
    Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
    Sony X555ES Cd Player
    Yamaha NS1000m Speakers

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