Has anyone had any experience with Amarra?

[twelvebears]

This came up in conversation with the chap who runs Item Audio and I wondered of any AOSers using a Mac as their music source had any views.

My (probably rubbish) understanding is that iTunes has a particular 'sound' and handles music files in a certain way, thus influencing the digital output.

Amarra seems to be a plug-in which interfaces with and takes over the way core audio is handled and (aledgedly) results is a more accurate version being passed via the digital output, and thus to the DAC.

If anyone has got views, I'd love to hear them.

I use PLEX (basically a Mac dedicated kind of XBMC) to access all my media and it interfaces with iTunes. What I don't know (but have asked) is to what degree PLEX actually uses iTunes when playing music. Personally I only think it uses the library info, as you can add music sources other than iTunes (i.e. a drive full of FLAC files) but I'd like to know.

[Themis]

Steve, in my opinion there are two ways of handling PC audio : bit-perfect or not bit-perfect.
There's no evidence whatsoever (although it is would have been very easy to provide it) that iTunes does not handle audio bit-perfectly.
Worse than that, several firms (like Benchmark) which have done some tests, have stated explicitly that the normal core components are bit-perfect while several other "custom software and drivers" are not (see page 25+ of http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/manual...anual-RevC.pdf).

If you need details of how to setup your system for bit-perfect playback, see http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

There cannot be any software differences for handling bit-perfect audio : only hardware differences.

[twelvebears]

Steve, in my opinion there are two ways of handling PC audio : bit-perfect or not bit-perfect.
There's no evidence whatsoever (although it is would have been very easy to provide it) that iTunes does not handle audio bit-perfectly.
Worse than that, several firms (like Benchmark) which have done some tests, have stated explicitly that the normal core components are bit-perfect while several other "custom software and drivers" are not (see page 25+ of http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/manual...anual-RevC.pdf).

If you need details of how to setup your system for bit-perfect playback, see http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

There cannot be any software differences for handling bit-perfect audio : only hardware differences.

I have to say that I'd be inclined to believe that too, however the view seems to be from some over on Computer Audiophile that iTunes *seems* to add a signature and impact soundstage etc.... Hence the justification for Amarra, which is a quite expensive piece of software and USB dongle (about £180).

As it happens, although I use iTunes to manage my music, I don't generally use it to listen to it, and PLEX uses it's owninternal audio player, PAPlayer.

Out of curiosity, I may try doing so A-B comparisions between the two, but as you say, there shouldn't be any difference....

[Themis]

I have to say that I'd be inclined to believe that too, however the view seems to be from some over on Computer Audiophile that iTunes *seems* to add a signature and impact soundstage etc.... Hence the justification for Amarra, which is a quite expensive piece of software and USB dongle (about £180).

As it happens, although I use iTunes to manage my music, I don't generally use it to listen to it, and PLEX uses it's owninternal audio player, PAPlayer.

Out of curiosity, I may try doing so A-B comparisions between the two, but as you say, there shouldn't be any difference....

Curiosity is a good thing.
Of course, if your system is properly set, we can talk about the differences later.

[twelvebears]

Curiosity is a good thing.
Of course, if your system is properly set, we can talk about the differences later.

OK, I went into the Audio setting and shifted everything to 24bit/96kHz, disable the bits in iTunes and have now restarted iTunes and all sound good.

Incidentally I've now realised I have to give up on Plex as my music solution as it can't play high-res files. I discovered this because I have one 24/96 file - Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley and PLEX wouldn't play it.

Also before I did all this I tested the two back to back with a selection of well recorded tracks and couldn't detect any difference.

Perhaps I have low-res ears....

[purite audio]

Dimitri Hi, Amarra doesn't perform any DSP, what it does ( and also other players like PV ) is use some clever maths and cache the data from the HD to RAM, results can vary from system to system but it can make a significant improvement over standard itunes.
It also automatically senses and changes sample rates, ( so you don't have to keep quitting itunes, opening audio midi resetting etc ) it has a properly dithered digital attenuator so you can use it as a preamp, with remote and it has a built in EQ should you need it.
Keith.

[Themis]

Dimitri Hi, Amarra doesn't perform any DSP, what it does ( and also other players like PV ) is use some clever maths and cache the data from the HD to RAM, results can vary from system to system but it can make a significant improvement over standard itunes.
It also automatically senses and changes sample rates, ( so you don't have to keep quitting itunes, opening audio midi resetting etc ) it has a properly dithered digital attenuator so you can use it as a preamp, with remote and it has a built in EQ should you need it.
Keith.

Hi Keith,

easiness for changing sample rates can indeed be a plus. Although, depending on the system (for me: Windows 7) you don't even have to stop playback to release/change/re-enslave a USB driver when changing
sample rate. But, some systems and versions need to do otherwise, I suppose.

For the maths, I don't see which maths are there involved in creating then sending a buffer. I won't get into details of driver calls and parameter handling, but believe me, it's my job: there's no math.

And the HD to RAM trick ... : if this is could be true, then we could start thinking that different processors, motherboards or memories (2x512 ? 2x1Gb ? 2x2Gb) can produce a different sound. Even with Amarra.
So... ?. How can a software master EM emissions and DC tensions ? A mystery to me. Once more, as it's my job (at least as much as the Amarra guys), I can tell you that it's only hype, based on peoples' ignorance.
Whatever happens up to the point the data is received by the USB driver is of no importance as far as the integrity of these data is concerned. Fortunately, otherwise, we would never use computers...

[purite audio]

Hi Keith,

easiness for changing sample rates can indeed be a plus. Although, depending on the system (for me: Windows 7) you don't even have to stop playback to release/change/re-enslave a USB driver when changing
sample rate. But, some systems and versions need to do otherwise, I suppose.

For the maths, I don't see which maths are there involved in creating then sending a buffer. I won't get into details of driver calls and parameter handling, but believe me, it's my job: there's no math.

And the HD to RAM trick ... : if this is could be true, then we could start thinking that different processors, motherboards or memories (2x512 ? 2x1Gb ? 2x2Gb) can produce a different sound. Even with Amarra.
So... ?. How can a software master EM emissions and DC tensions ? A mystery to me. Once more, as it's my job (at least as much as the Amarra guys), I can tell you that it's only hype, based on peoples' ignorance.
Whatever happens up to the point the data is received by the USB driver is of no importance as far as the integrity of these data is concerned. Fortunately, otherwise, we would never use computers...

Dimitri you have been writing audio software since the 1980's and your software is perhaps the most respected in the pro audio world?
Keith.

[Themis]

Dimitri you have been writing audio software since the 1980's and your software is perhaps the most respected in the pro audio world?
Keith.

Keith... what audio has to do with that ? Are we talking about bit-perfect data transferring to USB devises or about some audio transformation here ?

If we are talking about audio algorithms then we are not talking about bit-perfect USB audio, but rather about software upsampling. This, indeed is NOT my job, it doesn't even interest me and -certainly- other people should know better than me about it.

BUT: if we are talking about transferring stored data to another device... well, there's nothing "algorithmic" about it. And yes, any programmer can do that, you don't need any math degree : just the protocol specifications, a counter, the buffer to transfer and the handle to call. Do you see something more ?

And yes, I've been writing software since 1981. But I don't see what it has to do with my argumentation...

[webby]

I think it's snobbery. Free (iTunes) can't be good, ergo, pay for Amarra. Some audiophiles won't take you seriously if you use itunes.