A tale of two amplifiers

[farflungstar]

I'll look into that...

[Barry]

Two shots - one of the Cary, one of the Hiraga. In my opinion the Cary is bloody untidy for a £10k amp whereas the Hiraga is incredibly simple.

The Hiraga design may be the simpler but to my eyes the wiring looks just as untidy. But whatever works!

[farflungstar]

What astounds me about this class A amp is it's similarity in tone to 300b/845 tubes, vocals are still as beautifully fleshed out, percussion is a level above, imaging is pinpoint, layering is better, depth is less but if it's on the recorded album it's there. This and all the above can be laid at the door of a certain 'bloom' and vieling that has disappeared. I think the Hiraga has met it's natural mate in the Ane's, but I miss looking at those glowing valves and thinking how incredible it is that they are helping make me feel good. Got to get the Cary's serviced.

[walpurgis]

Not astounding really. Surely, the better amps are, the less one should be able to tell them apart?

[Macca]

Not astounding really. Surely, the better amps are, the less one should be able to tell them apart?

True, but only in an objective sense. It is weird sometimes what people like and don't like. And in subjective-world, if they like it, then it's 'better'.

[Eaton Mess]

Hiraga does not have a monopoly on a SS amplifier sounding like valves or visa versa.

Seems like you are looking for an amplifier that combines the best attributes of both solid state and valves?

Have you thought of a hybrid like the croft valves and transistor.

There is a Berning ZH270 all valve but with many SS attributes of great bass control, speed, tone and timbre http://davidberning.com/products/zh270

There are also the Nelson Pass First watt solid state which are very valve like for example the SIT 1 and 2 http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superio..._amplifier.htm

What astounds me about this class A amp is it's similarity in tone to 300b/845 tubes, vocals are still as beautifully fleshed out, percussion is a level above, imaging is pinpoint, layering is better, depth is less but if it's on the recorded album it's there. This and all the above can be laid at the door of a certain 'bloom' and vieling that has disappeared. I think the Hiraga has met it's natural mate in the Ane's, but I miss looking at those glowing valves and thinking how incredible it is that they are helping make me feel good. Got to get the Cary's serviced.

[montesquieu]

The Pass Sit amps are 10w single ended and would most likely be pretty hopeless with Tannoys. I’ve tried the push pull 25w First Watt amp (can’t remember if it was an F5 or F3) and it was ok but easily bested into my HPDs by a Radford STA25. Nicely made and I’m sure fits well in other applications.

I’ve heard the Berning amps sound good with other setups but haven’t had any in my system to compare - in theory they should work well with the caveat that OTL amps can sometimes have high output impedance (the Crofts suffer from this) which Tannoys most definitely don’t like.

Not tried any hybrids - if going solid state something like the Hiraga would seem to offer a more coherent approach.





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[Eaton Mess]

The Pass Sit amps are 10w single ended and would most likely be pretty hopeless with Tannoys. I’ve tried the push pull 25w First Watt amp (can’t remember if it was an F5 or F3) and it was ok but easily bested into my HPDs by a Radford STA25. Nicely made and I’m sure fits well in other applications.

I’ve heard the Berning amps sound good with other setups but haven’t had any in my system to compare - in theory they should work well with the caveat that OTL amps can sometimes have high output impedance (the Crofts suffer from this) which Tannoys most definitely don’t like.

Not tried any hybrids - if going solid state something like the Hiraga would seem to offer a more coherent approach.





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Its supposition as to what the end result any of these amplifiers would be with the Tannoy's BUT one thing I have learned over the years power output is no indication as to how an amplifier will perform with a given speaker. Personally I have no direct experience of these amplifiers with these speakers but Nelson Pass does.



By coincidence the First Watt SIT-2 is I believe 20 watts as is the Hiraga

Here is a link to a couple of articles which covers Nelson Pass and his love among other speakers the Tannoy HPD
https://www.dagogo.com/a-pass-labs-experience/
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue78/nelson_pass.htm

I have owned Radford in the past and as you say should probably be a good match but its sound is fairly typical of its output tube type. However; that does not seem to be what @Farflungstar is yearning for. He seems to be saying he wants the best attributes of tubes (Cary) and Solid State (Hiraga) so perhaps he needs to look at amplifiers which have these traits. Personally I value these attributes too

The Berning is a unique amplifier both in design and IMHO sound too. You mention the issue of output impedance and this is something David Berning has catered for by offering three switchable settings. Typical output impedpance (measured at 1 amp, 60Hz): 1.8 ohms, NORM feedback; 3.8 ohms, MED feedback; 8.7 ohms, LOW feedback. If @Farflungstar were in the UK he would be most welcome to borrow my ZH270 for a whirl with the Tannoy's as I would be very interested in the end result myself!

[montesquieu]

Its supposition as to what the end result any of these amplifiers would be with the Tannoy's BUT one thing I have learned over the years power output is no indication as to how an amplifier will perform with a given speaker. Personally I have no direct experience of these amplifiers with these speakers but Nelson Pass does.



By coincidence the First Watt SIT-2 is I believe 20 watts as is the Hiraga

Here is a link to a couple of articles which covers Nelson Pass and his love among other speakers the Tannoy HPD
https://www.dagogo.com/a-pass-labs-experience/
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue78/nelson_pass.htm

I have owned Radford in the past and as you say should probably be a good match but its sound is fairly typical of its output tube type. However; that does not seem to be what @Farflungstar is yearning for. He seems to be saying he wants the best attributes of tubes (Cary) and Solid State (Hiraga) so perhaps he needs to look at amplifiers which have these traits. Personally I value these attributes too

The Berning is a unique amplifier both in design and IMHO sound too. You mention the issue of output impedance and this is something David Berning has catered for by offering three switchable settings. Typical output impedpance (measured at 1 amp, 60Hz): 1.8 ohms, NORM feedback; 3.8 ohms, MED feedback; 8.7 ohms, LOW feedback. If @Farflungstar were in the UK he would be most welcome to borrow my ZH270 for a whirl with the Tannoy's as I would be very interested in the end result myself!

Well my experience with many different sets of Tannoys and thirty-odd amps tried with them is that for the most part (with a few very rare exceptions) single ended designs don't work terribly well. I used HPDs myself currently. The output impedance figures for the Bernings bear out my concern - Tannoys need a decent damping factor to perform properly (which is exactly the issue with most SET amps).

A properly functioning Radford BTW is the opposite of 'typical tubey' - not sure where you got that? Have you ever heard one?

I agree that watts often have little impact on things - I have a Leak Stereo 20 whose 12 watts drives HPDs surprisingly well, though it is better suited to Monitor Golds. But most Tannoys do respond well to having a few watts up them. Again speaking from (lots of) experience.

[farflungstar]

I don't think I've ever been so worried about investing in an amplifier before - for so long I've wallowed in the magic of SET and to now be thinking of other topologies is scary. I think that's why I'm stuck on the Leben - is known to work very well with Tannoys, and the ability to change a good amount of different tubes means I can voice the amp to a degree.