A tale of two amplifiers

[walpurgis]

Over-engineering is often just a fancy-sounding term for using unnecessarily large and heavy components without any particular design rationale other that it will impress the customer and justify a high price tag.

Bit like having a 700 bhp, 200 mph Bentley, in a country with a 70 limit and traffic congestion.

[farflungstar]

Over-engineering is often just a fancy-sounding term for using unnecessarily large and heavy components without any particular design rationale other that it will impress the customer and justify a high price tag.


Yes, that would appear to be the obvious answer. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....


Yes, having spent a lot of money on something it can be hard to accept that it isn't quite what you thought it was.

I would agree about over engineering. Although I'm not sure you can make a transformer too big in a valve amp as most respected manufacturers agree. However the Carys are recognised as exceptional amplifiers for bringing the SET 300b sound together with the balls and drive of the 845 tube - they are in the top ten amplifiers of all time according to certain publications, although I'm sure if you looked inside one you wouldn't agree!

It's perfectly logical that the Hiraga should outsmart the Cary's in terms of of power and drive, if not in your those subtle audiophile qualities we like such as depth of soundstage, tonallity, liquidity etc, when you think that the Cary's haven't been serviced or touched in 15 years and run hotter than a gridle. Once they are serviced then the comparison might be fairer.

It really isn't about money for me - I dont care if I discover something for £50 that pisses offer a £10k amp - I'd keep the £50 and sell the £10k. The Hiraga has surprising qualities and I understand why Jake offered to buy it back - but it does not have the qualities of a valve amp - a fettled valve amp.
Methinks.

[RothwellAudio]

Bit like having a 700 bhp, 200 mph Bentley, in a country with a 70 limit and traffic congestion.

Not quite. The point I was trying to make was that it would be a bit like having a 2 litre engine that performs no better than a 1 litre engine.

I would agree about over engineering. Although I'm not sure you can make a transformer too big in a valve amp as most respected manufacturers agree...
...the Cary's haven't been serviced or touched in 15 years and run hotter than a gridle...

True, but there's a limit to how far you can go with the design philosophy of "it's bigger so it must be better". A well-chosen resistor costing 2p can bring about dramatic improvements to circuit and be much more cost-effective, but you have to know enough about electronics to think of including the resistor in the first place.
Yes, running hot does shorten the life expectancy of components quite considerably. Maybe checking things out isn't a bad idea.

[alphaGT]

Can you bi-amp the speakers? Run the Hiraga to the woofers and the Cary to the tweeters, see what that sounds like?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[farflungstar]

I'm toying with options, not having factored in spending money on amplifiers this year - I have a very good deal on a New Audio Frontiers 84&se but that would relegate the Cary's to their boxes which is a shame as theyre superb. Better to get them serviced and upgraded and keep them in use.

As to the Hiraga - I love it, but it has two failings and I'd like to try and address them. Depth of soundstage and a slight veiling. I know some people think its heresy to change anything but would upgrading caps, resistors help with this?

[User211]

What is in the Hiraga now in terms of components?

[Arkless Electronics]

I'm toying with options, not having factored in spending money on amplifiers this year - I have a very good deal on a New Audio Frontiers 84&se but that would relegate the Cary's to their boxes which is a shame as theyre superb. Better to get them serviced and upgraded and keep them in use.

As to the Hiraga - I love it, but it has two failings and I'd like to try and address them. Depth of soundstage and a slight veiling. I know some people think its heresy to change anything but would upgrading caps, resistors help with this?

Probably not.

[farflungstar]

What is in the Hiraga now in terms of components?

Very little actually - it's true dual mono so aside from the transformer, heatsinks and the big power caps there's only two tidy circuit boards with less than a handful of caps etc between them, and there are already good quality components such as red Wima. It's simplicity is what I like about it.

I'm still listening to it and have no desire to switch back to the Cary's - if only it resolved depth better - but the Cary's are renowned for their spooky image depth.

I know some people either say caps don't make a difference or I shouldn't alter a classic - I think caps, resistors etc do make differences - I just need to know which ones would make the most difference.

As for altering a classic - im not a collector, im a listener.

[fatmarley]

Are there different versions of this amp? I don't know what the latest revision Is, but this one over at diyaudio has some extra components compared to circuit diagrams I've seen on Google - LINK

One of the circuit diagrams I saw on google has a single, small value cap decoupling the power rail but the one on diyaudio has an extra 22uf electrolytic. If yours Is an older model? you may be able to upgrade It to the latest spec If It Is.

[farflungstar]

Are there different versions of this amp? I don't know what the latest revision Is, but this one over at diyaudio has some extra components compared to circuit diagrams I've seen on Google - LINK

One of the circuit diagrams I saw on google has a single, small value cap decoupling the power rail but the one on diyaudio has an extra 22uf electrolytic. If yours Is an older model? you may be able to upgrade It to the latest spec If It Is.

Thanks for that I'll check it out - mine is very old.