A tale of two amplifiers

[farflungstar]

Tubes are less than 18 months old.

[mac72]

Tubes are less than 18 months old.

Tubes should be fine then , have amps serviced , if of any help here is a service manual ,(should help to trace parts) :
http://www.ainamoi.com/805c.htm

[Arkless Electronics]

The Hiraga's probably just a better amp than the Cary

[farflungstar]

The Hiraga's probably just a better amp than the Cary

I can't quite believe that Jez.

[montesquieu]

I can't quite believe that Jez.

He might well be right.

The Es are funny to match though. I have a suspicion a Krell with them would be horrible (as it was with my Tannoy Golds). Synergy is all.

[oldius]

I am not a fan whatsoever of AN speakers. I didn't realise that you were intending to replace them but the advice posted is sound: get the speakers right first, especially their interaction with your room. Invite guests who are willing to bring a range of speakers for you to try. If they all sound better with the Hiraga then you have a much clearer path.

[mac72]

I can't quite believe that Jez.

Agreed , have them checked , it's a nicely designed amps ,
all coupling caps are oil filled , they don't like operating at high temperature for long time as they go out of specs , it shouldn't cost €1500 to check them over and replace few parts

[farflungstar]

The Cary's operate at stupidly high temperatures not only because of the 845 tubes but because of a resistor which uses the top plate to cool off - this makes it impossible to touch the top plate. I can imagine that any components close by are slowly cooked.

[farflungstar]

After a marathon 8 hours of listening to the Hiraga I can say it loses out to the Carys in overall sound quality, particularly depth and truth of timbre (if valves can do that). Where the Hiraga wins is width of soundstage and bass depth, articulation and slam, it also reveals a little finer detail but very little. The biggest difference is the way it energises the audio notes in a way the Carys don't. But of course the Carys haven't been serviced or upgraded in maybe 15 years so in September I'll ship them to Valencia and have them sorted.

[RothwellAudio]

I guess the Cary's are just gonna have to go for service and upgrade - I'm thinking maybe the power caps are shot but I'm no Jez arkless. Unless you've seen and lifted an 805c it's difficult to understand the over engineering that's in them. The trannies are the biggest I've ever seen and they weigh in at 45k each monoblock. They make most other amps look puny and fragile. They are however a dog's dinner internally.

Over-engineering is often just a fancy-sounding term for using unnecessarily large and heavy components without any particular design rationale other that it will impress the customer and justify a high price tag.

The Hiraga's probably just a better amp than the Cary

Yes, that would appear to be the obvious answer. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

I can't quite believe that Jez.

Yes, having spent a lot of money on something it can be hard to accept that it isn't quite what you thought it was.