PSU Upgrades. Why?

[Edward]

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. By "correct grounding" I wasn't referring to the way a collection of sources/preamps/amps are connected, rather the way that individual elements within a circuit are connected on a PCB, ie the way the 0V tracks are routed. It's an easy mistake to think that 0 volts (or earth, or ground or whatever term you prefer) is a black hole that all the rubbish goes into and all points at 0V are the same, but that's not true. Current flows down those tracks and one end of a track can be very different from the other.

On the macro scale yes, you're correct that if a ground loop doesn't exist then it can't be broken by using an earth lift switch.

Sorry I ought to have paid more attention and understood you were talking about internal grounding.

But back to my point. So there is no easy way of checking correct grounding *between* items other than listening?

On a similar note I see that some producers (eg Vertex?) sell items with additional ground/earth wires on the basis that it (can) radically improve sound. Do you know what the theory is behind all that - or is it just mumbo jumbo?

E

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[RothwellAudio]

The Vertex stuff appears to be mumbo-jumbo to me.
As for checking grounding between items, that's a complete can of worms. Balanced equipment is supposed to solve all those grounding problems, yet not all balanced equipment is grounded the same way. Even the term "ground" is ambiguous. The 0V reference point of a circuit doesn't have to have any connection the planet Earth via the mains green/yellow wire, but it is often referred to as "ground". However, the metalwork needs to be connected to mains earth for safety. So what does "ground" mean? It seems to mean different things to different people, or at least the term is often used very loosely.
Sorry, that's a rubbish answer to your question. Best I can do though.

[Edward]

Thanks Andrew, that is very helpful.

I'm glad you are patient with my rambling, and probably nonsensical, questions.

In this quest of the 'art' of sound all I'm trying to do is to find a way forward that improves my understanding which hopefully stops me going down wrong roads (=expensive) and instead leads me to improved sounds. There has been many times I have added or changed something which led a 'wow' moment and other times (thankfully less) which were simply 'meh'.

E

[Pharos]

The BBC had terms Mains earth and Programme earth.

The latter was entirely about signal connection, avoiding loops and reducing hum, but it was connected at one point to the mains earth.

Star earth connection became the way too remove voltage drops across long series connected wires going to earth.

[Beobloke]

Here's the correct grounding practice In a Naim preamp

Star Earth Mod

Sorry, but what's the problem? Admittedly the pink wire just below the centre could do with being about 3 inches longer but, other than that, I can't see any issues here...

[Pharos]

I'm assuming that is a joke.

I have only looked into two pieces of Naim stuff, and they, in a 250, even bent all the wires at right angles to make it look neater.

[RothwellAudio]

I'm assuming that is a joke.

Yes, it's a joke. The amp in the picture has been the subject of numerous DIY mods. I don't think they leave the Naim factory looking like that.

[Yomanze]

Oh - I had hoped there would be a simple test - such as a continuity test - to test for and then correct any grounding issues.

But yes I agree that listening is probably the best way.

On the DAC I use there is a ground lift switch - it makes zero difference either way - so I guess there is no ground issue there. Correct? Or is a ground lift switch simply eliminating a ground loop and if one does not exist there will be no difference?

E

Correct, my DAC also has a ground lift circuit - if you don't near noise via either of them, then you don't have a grounding issue between the DAC & interconnecting components.

[Yomanze]

Indeed. Audiophiles obsess far too much on "component quality" and "boutique capacitors" etc. The design of the circuitry itself, the ground layout and the correct provision of power at Point Of Load completely swamps any effects from fancy components.

Amen, and to make matters even more interesting, a super-cheapo component can *outperform* boutique components in the right place. Sometimes, in certain places, a boutique component can help, but it does pain me when I see people just adding in expensive components everywhere, not considering how each component works, assuming there'll be an upgrade - sometimes it'll be a downgrade.

[Yomanze]

Ah beat me to it! It's sometimes regarded as a bit of a "black art" but it's certainly something that is usually the biggest cause of problems in home made kit etc... It's surprising how often less than good grounding practice is found in commercial kit as well! It can be hard for the lay man to get his head around why you cant get a piece of bare wire, connect it to ground at one end and run it the length of the amp and then connect all the things that need to go to ground to this piece of wire... not if you want good performance anyway... sometimes the unit will not even work properly and burst into oscillation!

At its extreme, in ultimate quality voltage regulators I've designed and built, the exact manner in which earthing is done is so critical that even though the ground connections are of very thick wire and only an inch or so long they have to be just right for it to work at all!!

I wonder how many people have added 'super clocks' to their digital gear and actually increased jitter & power supply noise / ground bounce due to improper grounding...