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Thread: Do I get a SUT?

  1. #1
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Oakengates, Shropshire

    Posts: 654
    I'm Richard.

    Default Do I get a SUT?

    Hi all,
    Well, here's the story. I replaced my Dynavector L300/HX1.2 last year for the NAD Masters Series M12/M22 combination, which overall I've been over the moon with. The only drawback to the new amps is that they lack the widely configurable phono stage that the Dynavetor had that allowed me to set gain and capacitance settings for my DV20X2L MC cartridge perfectly. The NAD pre has an MC input, but there are no adjustments that can be made and given the low output of the DV, it gets a little noisy.

    As an experiment earlier this year and having read lots of good things, I bought a Shure M55e MM. That has worked an absolute treat and I've been back enjoying my vinyl again. It has also illustrated how good the MM stage is on the NAD, even if it is sampling the incoming signal at 48KHz. I am kind of itching to return to my DV though, so I wondered whether a step up transformer may be the way to go. I'm loathe to buy an outboard phono stage as having reduced my box count after swapping the amps, I'd like to keep it that way, but accommodating a step up transformer would be fine.

    If a SUT sounds to make good sense, can anyone offer any recommendations on particular units? I must admit it's something I'd never really considered before. Budget is 'don't go crazy' ;-).
    Rich

  2. #2
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Norwich

    Posts: 2,814
    I'm Hugo.

    Default

    SUTs can bring pleasure and pain in equal measure - get a good match and often it results in musical heaven, but there are a great number of pretty ordinary (eg dull) SUTs around and you really need to try one before buying. Don't rule out an active MC head amp, though - these will often give you much greater flexibility with gain and effective loading. For a digital amplifier, you most definitely don't want to have too much gain because overloading the ADC only means awful digital distortion.

    I have no experience of his products, but I'd chat to Rothwell Audio (of this parish) since he produces both SUTs and head amps at reasonable prices.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Don't be tempted by a cheap SUT. Most are pretty dire. A decent one is a treat though. On the used market, the cheapest good sounding SUT I've used is the Fidelity Research FRT-3. The larger FRT-5 can also be occasionally be found. Both sound very nice and are compatible with most Japanese MC's and also Ortofons. The FRT-3 has switchable 30 ohm or 10 ohm settings and also a bypass, should you wish to mount an MM. I've noticed prices are rising these days. Most on offer tend to be from Japan.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  4. #4
    RothwellAudio Guest

    Default

    Your cartridge has a source impedance of 5 ohms and an output voltage of 0.3mV (if I've got the correct specs). The low source impedance is good and means it will go nicely with a transformer (no worries about bass). The output voltage is low, but not low enough to be a problem.
    If you wanted to consider one of the step-up transformers that I offer the MCL (turns ratio 1:20) would be my choice.
    http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co....ansformer.html

    A cheaper alternative would be the MC1. Its core material isn't as good as the MCL and its bandwidth is less, but in practice it's really not all that far behind the MCL in terms of musical performance in a system.
    http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co....ransforme.html

    As Hugo mentioned above (thank you) a headamp is a viable alternative to a step-up transformer. It will raise the output of the cartridge up to MM level but do it with transistors rather than transformers. The Headspace that I offer has four gain settings and eight load impedance settings and will work well with your cartridge. It's also cheaper than the MCL.
    http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co....c_headamp.html

  5. #5
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Oakengates, Shropshire

    Posts: 654
    I'm Richard.

    Default

    Wow, that was a pretty comprehensive and unanimous set of answers. Thanks guys.

    I was already having a good read of your site Andrew when Hugo stepped in with the recommendation (thank you Hugo). I have to say I'm very much intrigued by the idea of what a SUT could do in my system and your recommendation of the MCL, particularly with my cartridge sounds like a solid one. Those specs of the DV20X2L sound correct to me. I seem to remember those figures from when I was originally setting it up with the DV phono stage. I was a little torn between liking the flexibility of the head-amp if in the future I move to another cartridge with different output voltage and impedance, but the draw is definitely towards the SUT.
    I'm going to have to wait a couple of weeks to order one as I'm about to move house - escaping Wiltshire for Shropshire - but I've just been convinced in record time that it's the way to go ;-).
    Many thanks!
    Rich

  6. #6
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: Surrey

    Posts: 4,162
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    My Ortofon SUT was a big step up in sound quality
    TAD CD / DAC / Pre, Technics 1210, MCRU PSU, Mike New Bearing & Platter, Stillpoints LP1 weight, Speedy Steve Ebony armboard, Fidelity Research FR64FX arm, Ortofon SPU. Aurorasound VIDA Phono Pre Amp, TAD Power Amp, TAD E1 speakers. Coherent RTZ 3 Grounding box, Coherent grounding cables, Creaktiv racks. Coherent Mains Cables. SR Blue Fuse. Interconnects : Coherent and Yannis 223.5 Connect Litz. Coherent speaker cable. Audio Magic Transcendence Conditioner. Coherent mains socket. Mains Filters : , PS Audio Harvesters, Russ Andrews Purifiers, Tacima, Vertex. Black Ravioli and RDC supports. Electric Beach S1NX platforms for TAD CD and Technics. Ferrite chokes everywhere except the above. Ears, brain

    Mike

  7. #7
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex

    Posts: 7,087
    I'm Dave.

    Default

    Probably obvious but you do need a good SUT or head-amp. The reason some prefer MM cartridges is that many MC step ups are junk and the cartridge sinks or swims on the quality of the step up.

    Rothwell products are great and good value. You won't go wrong with anything from them.

  8. #8
    Join Date: Nov 2014

    Location: Denbigh, N. Wales

    Posts: 106
    I'm Mark.

    Default

    Talk to Sowter and put it in a box yourself. No need to spend hundreds !

  9. #9
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: London Town

    Posts: 2,441
    I'm Julian.

    Default

    I'm still loving the Fidelity FRT-3 that I bought from Geoff - a remarkably transparent bit of kit...
    Sonore Rendu - Cambridge Audio Edge W - Sonus Faber Venere 2.5

  10. #10
    RothwellAudio Guest

    Default

    The FRT-3 has two turns ratio options and true to form they're labelled in the most confusing way possible (to my mind at least). One option is labelled as "30 ohms" and it has a turns ratio of 1:20. That would be the option to use with the OP's Dynavector cartridge, despite the DV cartridge having an internal impedance of 5 ohms.
    The second option is labelled as "10 ohms" and has a turns ratio of 1:40. That's too high a ratio for the Dynavector despite the labelled impedance being closer to the cartridge's source impedance.

    Still, you can't do any damage by trying both options and it would be worth trying both just to find out what it sounds like when you get it "wrong". It usually doesn't sound all that wrong anyway.

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