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Thread: The perils of modifying gear

  1. #21
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 6,843
    I'm Justin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatmarley View Post
    What caps are those? (I'm still searching for the perfect but not too expensive crossover cap)
    Jantzen Alumen Z-Cap. Aluminium caps serving an aluminium/Kapton Apogee ribbon. With PathAudio resistors and Jantzen coils. See HumbleHomemade for cap review. He's right and I am concerned they are actually better than he is admitting!

    The combo of the above just works brilliantly in my system and there's no question in my mind that what works well in one system won't in another. You need a degree of fluke and the only way to know what is great is to try different combos. Spending much more on caps alone is no guarantee of a better result I think. Shame there's no try before you buy on boutique caps.

  2. #22
    RothwellAudio Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen Dover View Post
    Most mods bring forth extra musical detail and going down that road can bring disappointment. All that detail has to be processed by the brain leading to listener fatigue and ultimately the system gets played less.
    This doesn't make any sense at all to me. When you're listening to an ensemble of real instruments live in front of you you will get all the detail and realism there's ever going to be. Do you put your fingers in your ears to reduce the detail and therefore make the instruments easier for your brain to process?
    Distortion can sometimes give the impression of enhanced detail and the effect is sometimes used in studios to spice-up tracks, but it makes busy music harder to follow. If your mods are giving the impression of enhanced detail but the results are fatiguing I'd guess that the mods are creating distortion.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 1,757
    I'm Chris.

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    My system is so distortion free, I leave it on as i am doing at this very minute, to listen as I get to sleep.
    Waking up in the morning is such a pleasure to hear it again.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Jul 2017

    Location: Doncaster

    Posts: 16
    I'm Michael.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    This doesn't make any sense at all to me. When you're listening to an ensemble of real instruments live in front of you you will get all the detail and realism there's ever going to be. Do you put your fingers in your ears to reduce the detail and therefore make the instruments easier for your brain to process?
    Distortion can sometimes give the impression of enhanced detail and the effect is sometimes used in studios to spice-up tracks, but it makes busy music harder to follow. If your mods are giving the impression of enhanced detail but the results are fatiguing I'd guess that the mods are creating distortion.
    Hello,

    Everything is fine with my system now but I have had problems in the past. I think I worded my post in the wrong way.

    Uncovering hidden layer after layer of details has led to being disappointed with the quality of a fair few recordings, much to my dismay. Sibilance on vocals is a bit of a bugbear of mine and I did not realise how much there was on Stevie Wonder recordings for example until my system had become more resolving. I don't think metal dome tweeters help on that score much either.

  5. #25
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: cheltenham

    Posts: 746
    I'm matt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    Jantzen Alumen Z-Cap. Aluminium caps serving an aluminium/Kapton Apogee ribbon. With PathAudio resistors and Jantzen coils. See HumbleHomemade for cap review. He's right and I am concerned they are actually better than he is admitting!

    The combo of the above just works brilliantly in my system and there's no question in my mind that what works well in one system won't in another. You need a degree of fluke and the only way to know what is great is to try different combos. Spending much more on caps alone is no guarantee of a better result I think. Shame there's no try before you buy on boutique caps.
    Sounds like one to try then. I'd also like to try the ClarityCap CMR...

  6. #26
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,857
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Don't forget. They are directional. If you have them the wrong way round they won't fit!


    Reminds me of the joke (apologies to lovers of C&W music): "What happens if you play a Country and Western record backwards? Answer: the dog come back to life and your girlfriend walks in through the door".
    Barry

  7. #27
    Join Date: Jan 2015

    Location: Leeds

    Posts: 164
    I'm Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen Dover View Post
    I have done many modifications to amps, cdp's and power supplies over the years. It can become addictive and the need for the next fix overwhelming.

    It is hard to not think every mod is an improvement, often putting things back to stock is the only way to prove to yourself that you are not imaging things.

    Most mods bring forth extra musical detail and going down that road can bring disappointment. All that detail has to be processed by the brain leading to listener fatigue and ultimately the system gets played less. I have been guilty of this and it is a relief to finally take a step back and realise what has been going on. When the system "disappears" you know you have cracked it.

    What are the collectives view on this ?
    I completely agree.
    Many people make the mistake of modifying very decent kit and end up with an unbalanced result.
    Far better to mod average or poor kit, more chance of success that way.

    I like building kit but don't bother much with modifying stuff nowdays. Although I suppose that since almost all my hifi kit is DIY, then I call it development not modding.

  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ammonite Acoustics View Post
    Among other good things, the renowned physicist Carlo Rovelli says "the foundation of science is an acute awareness of our ignorance". To use a well-worn phrase, true science is full of "known unknowns" and anyone disputing that we don't yet know everything is merely betraying their own lack of intuition, and glaring confirmation bias. Science does not stand still - we would not have progressed beyond Faraday and Ohm if scientists had not been curious to explore observations that science at the time could not explain.
    Good post, Hugo! And so true. Rovelli has it spot on. The other bit I also consider is a fundamental truism.

    Jez, take note...

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #29
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Hi Michael,

    Good question and an interesting topic, especially for me as an avid 'gear modifier'. Based on my experience, this is the fundamental point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen Dover View Post
    Most mods bring forth extra musical detail and going down that road can bring disappointment. All that detail has to be processed by the brain leading to listener fatigue and ultimately the system gets played less.
    If it's genuine *musical* detail (as in simply revealing more information on recordings), then it's never a problem, or rather should never be a problem.

    However... The problem is in ascertaining what is musical detail and what is simply tonal artifice, masquerading as musical detail, as often the creation of a brighter, more 'etched', superficially 'clearer' sound is mistaken for improved detail retrieval, or a more 'accurate' sound, and that's when too much of it can lead to listener fatigue.

    In order for your system to "disappear", as outlined, you need to minimise tonal artifice and maximise musical detail. Sounds simple, but unfortunately experimenting (trial and error using combinations of different components) is the only answer, and eventually you reach the point where you get good at separating one from the other, until the 'recipe' is right.

    That's what I did when modifying my kit, mostly with great success. Hope you find your way

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #30
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ammonite Acoustics View Post
    Among other good things, the renowned physicist Carlo Rovelli says "the foundation of science is an acute awareness of our ignorance". To use a well-worn phrase, true science is full of "known unknowns" and anyone disputing that we don't yet know everything is merely betraying their own lack of intuition, and glaring confirmation bias. Science does not stand still - we would not have progressed beyond Faraday and Ohm if scientists had not been curious to explore observations that science at the time could not explain.
    I honestly think we are still at the early development of science and technology. Assuming the rate of advances accelerates as it has over the last century and a half. In fifty years time, where we are now, will then look like the earlier steam age and first use of photography. Just my opinion mind you. What the future may hold should be mind boggling!!

    Unless of course everybody is dead from apocalyptic war, mass contagion or starvation.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

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