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Thread: Pre amp shootout

  1. #1
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: South London UK

    Posts: 168
    I'm Colin.

    Default Pre amp shootout

    For anyone who has followed my threads - here's a bit of an update as I conducted a "pre amp shootout" yesterday.
    Current system = thorens td166bc/sme 3009 IV fixed/nagoaka mp150..Arkless pre amp.. rotel 950bx tuner... Cyrus 7 preamp.. musical fidelity cd & power amp 3.2 with js mods...Martin Logan motion 15 speakers.
    To date the most pleasing upgrades have been 1. Getting the deck set up properly & buying the excellent Arkless pre amp & 2. Buying the excellent Martin Logan speakers with some great interconnects.
    Thinking I could get more out of my musical fidelity 3.2 power amp with js mods - I tried using the following pre amps to test the differences....
    Meridian 561 av (£160 on eBay)
    Myryad z40 headphone amp (with pre amp) - £129 via Peter Tyson.
    'Tisbury passive amp (loaned by a group member)
    Compared with my Cyrus 7 too.
    Results:
    Initially the Myryad emerged with more detail, focus and soundstage certainly compared against the Cyrus 7. It was a closer run thing against the Meridian 561,- which over duration seemed more "relaxed" and listenable- especially at very high volumes- however bass and lower frequencies were not as defined and accurate as the Myryad. The more I compared, the more unsure I was! Anyway - given the Myryad has not been "burned in" and has an excellent headphone amp - this will now replace the Faithfull Cyrus 7. Will keep the Meridan for av options & back up.
    The tisbury passive pre amp seemed to excel at extreme higher & lower frequencies - and although being quite detailed, I found the sound a bit characterless and flat! This could just be a mismatch with my power amp -
    I think another member commented that changing the pre amp will not change much, but just sound "different". For the moment aside from buying some nice cans upgraditis is on hold while I enjoy the music.
    I suspect if I wanted a serious improvement I'd have to invest serious money at the front end. Impressed with the Myryad though - Cyrus going.....
    Any thoughts anyone?
    Colin





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  2. #2
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,771
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Try a better passive than the Tisbury. It gives you a taste of what a passive can do but there are much better (albeit more expensive) passives out there.

    The quality of the pre-amp has a huge effect on the sound of a system, I doubt anyone would deny that.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: South London UK

    Posts: 168
    I'm Colin.

    Default

    Anyone any experience of this? They tailor the passive to your power amp - the 4 input version is about £300 I think
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130678286565


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  4. #4
    RothwellAudio Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Colinijohnson View Post
    For the moment aside from buying some nice cans upgraditis is on hold while I enjoy the music.
    That's a good place to be

  5. #5
    RothwellAudio Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Colinijohnson View Post
    Anyone any experience of this? They tailor the passive to your power amp - the 4 input version is about £300 I think
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130678286565
    Here's a quote from their ad:

    "95% of all commercially available passive preamps "allow" your precious audio signal to flow through its volume control. This is the most difficult area for your signal to pass w/o distortion and loss of clarity, etc. Our circuit employs one very high-quality 1% metal film fixed resistor in series with your power amp. The volume is adjusted by shunting your amp's input to ground via our volume control to ground and allowing the signal to flow into the amp by a "valve like" circuit. The clarity and detail offered by this type of circuit truly blows away all other passive solutions next to a 100% 1% resistor-based control."

    It's the old "in the signal path" myth (or not in the signal path) and it's total bullshit and makes me think they don't know the first thing about electronics.

    I set out my arguments against this type of attenuator in post #24 in this thread
    http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...tenuator/page3
    Last edited by RothwellAudio; 27-07-2017 at 13:50.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,173
    I'm Jez.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Here's a quote from their ad:

    "95% of all commercially available passive preamps "allow" your precious audio signal to flow through its volume control. This is the most difficult area for your signal to pass w/o distortion and loss of clarity, etc. Our circuit employs one very high-quality 1% metal film fixed resistor in series with your power amp. The volume is adjusted by shunting your amp's input to ground via our volume control to ground and allowing the signal to flow into the amp by a "valve like" circuit. The clarity and detail offered by this type of circuit truly blows away all other passive solutions next to a 100% 1% resistor-based control."

    It's the old "in the signal path" myth (or not in the signal path) and it's total bullshit and makes me think they don't know the first thing about electronics.


    I set out my arguments against this type of attenuator in post #24 in this thread
    http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...tenuator/page3
    +1
    Arkless Electronics-Engineered to be better. Tel. 01670 530674 (after 1pm)

    Modded Thorens TD150, Audio Technica AT-1005 MkII, Technics EPC-300MC, Arkless Hybrid MC phono stage, Arkless passive pre, Arkless 50WPC Class A SS power amp, (or) Arkless modded Leak Stereo 20, Modded Kef Reference 105/3's
    ReVox PR99, Studer B62, Ferrograph Series 7, Tandberg TCD440, Hitachi FT-5500MkI, also FT-5500MkII
    Digital: Yamaha CDR-HD1500 (Digital Swiss army knife-CD recorder, player, hard drive, DAC and ADC in one), PC files via 24/96 sound card and SPDIF, modded Philips CD850, modded Philips CD104, modded DPA Little Bit DAC. Sennheiser HD580 cans with Arkless Headphone amp.
    Cables- free interconnects that come with CD players, mains leads from B&Q, dead kettles etc, extension leads from Tesco

  7. #7
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Sheffield/Peak District. UK

    Posts: 574
    I'm Richard.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Try a better passive than the Tisbury. It gives you a taste of what a passive can do but there are much better (albeit more expensive) passives out there.

    The quality of the pre-amp has a huge effect on the sound of a system, I doubt anyone would deny that.
    Macca, what other preamps would you advocate?
    thanks,
    Richard

  8. #8
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: west mids, UK

    Posts: 3,268
    I'm Phil.

    Default

    great to read this thread . i just love to play with pre amps . i am not sure of the op budget but i have heard these are worth a try

    http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/...e-preamplifier

    and these

    https://hifiwigwam.com/megastore/pro...audio-satchmo/

    and
    http://www.hifi-forsale.co.uk/morein...=47522&offset=
    ou might slip, you might slide, you might
    Stumble and fall by the road side
    But don't you ever let nobody drag your spirit down
    Remember you're walking up to heaven

    Don't let nobody turn you around
    … Walk with the rich, walk with the poor
    Learn from everyone, that's what life is for
    And don't you let nobody drag your spirit down

    Eric Bibb

  9. #9
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Sheffield/Peak District. UK

    Posts: 574
    I'm Richard.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hifinutt View Post
    great to read this thread . i just love to play with pre amps . i am not sure of the op budget but i have heard these are worth a try

    http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/...e-preamplifier

    and these

    https://hifiwigwam.com/megastore/pro...audio-satchmo/

    and
    http://www.hifi-forsale.co.uk/morein...=47522&offset=
    mmm....interesting... man thanks!

    Richard

  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Something from 'Music First' could add to the equation.............If you've got a few grand handy!
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

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