Mythbusters does Hi-Fi.

[anthonyTD]

I am a great believer that every perceived change' that is witnessed by at least more than one person can be explained, if we know what to look for; as far as measurement and test, there is no Magic implied by those of us who do actualy believe in what we are hearing,we just need to look further into things that we currently perhaps dont associate with such changes.

I might be convinced by the subjectivist argument if there was an example where an instinctive reaction managed to prove the physics wrong. Or rather the interpretation of the physics in that context. I have asked this before and have not been given an example. Here is a hypothetical situation. Someone says cable risers improve the sound quality of their speakers. A scientist says this cannot be true because the physics says it is impossible for the sound to change just by lifting the wire. Later another scientist does an experiment where he discovers that the impedance of the cable changes when it is raised off the ground. He finds an effect, and proves it scientifically, that previously was thought to be impossible. In this case the subjective judgement leads to a change in the scientific understanding. Obviously this is a made up scenario, but has it ever happened in reality?

[Andy831]

Good thread idea Jez, I have really enjoyed your "teaching" so far and am looking forward to the next chapter (althought I doubt much will "stick" between my ears)

Andy

[RMutt]

I would imagine that in the early days of hi-fi people were ' accidentally' discovering all sorts of stuff. Later the physics would explain what was happening. But back then when all was new probably no one bothered arguing about the physics of it. And of course the cynicism wouldn't have been there because the snake oil salesmen hadn't put people on their guard. It's more recent examples im interested in.

[Andy831]

I wonder whether any myth busting was actually required prior to the advent of two channel?

[Pharos]

In post 50 Andrew you have chosen an example which is patently untrue to validate an assertion.

But what you describe in principle is exactly what happens in scientific discovery; a subjective assertion is made, and someone with patience works at it and discovers an underlying principle, or more usually nothing.

Surely the scientific process was prompted by the human need to understand his environment in order to better control it for his survival. Even a snapping twig in the forest near a tribal home, prompts enquiry.

Having recently seen some 'hosepipes' raised on 'electric rail supoorts', which were all massive, I take it that you are ignoring the direct acoustic effects in your example.

[RMutt]

I'm a little confused by your response Dennis. I'm not making an assertion, just using an invented scenario as a way of describing a potential example where the science ends up proving a subjective assertion. I realise in this case the science has not done so, who knows it might in the future, but is typical of the kind of situation that leads to argument. I'm not completely opposed to a subjective argument just wary of statements that appear to fly in the face of all logic or science. My interest is genuine, l would like to know about recent discoveries where a subjectivel assertion that appears to defy all scientific logic is then proven to be scientifically correct. When you say direct acoustic effects do you mean the behaviour of sound waves in the room being altered by the raising of the cable?

[Arkless Electronics]

Thread abandoned.

[Macca]

But we haven't got to the good stuff yet. I wanted you to disprove cable lifters, damn it all.

[anthonyTD]

???

Thread abandoned.

[walpurgis]

But we haven't got to the good stuff yet. I wanted you to disprove cable lifters, damn it all.

Can you use those with headphones?