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Thread: Linear vs Switched mode PSU

  1. #241
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Sheffield/Peak District. UK

    Posts: 574
    I'm Richard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    What's "a blind A/B test" got to do with the ability to discern differences? And don't suggest 'expectation bias'. I trust my ears and ability to judge how things sound. I suspect many others of us do too.
    Sorry, not going into this. We obviously have diametrically-opposed views as to what constitutes meaningful differences in SQ. And yes, placebo/expectation bias ( a'pre-emptive strike' on your behalf I think), has a lot to answer for... (I'm wording this so that it can be interpreted differently by both camps).
    I wonder how you think differences in drug efficacy, for example, are meaningfully measured?
    Let's not fall out...
    R

  2. #242
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonky View Post
    I wonder how you think differences in drug efficacy, for example, are meaningfully measured?
    I reckon somebody who's just smoked a large joint could possibly answer that (if incoherently).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonky View Post
    Let's not fall out...
    I may put things bluntly sometimes, but stating my case is not an indication that I wish to fall out with anybody.

    Carry on and relax!
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  3. #243
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starterman View Post
    Jez's expectation bias convinces him that a circuit powered by an SMPS or by a linear PS must sound the same - therefore that's what he hears.
    Entirely plausible...

    One has to recognise that expectation bias works BOTH ways, so one can 'expect NOT' to hear a difference, and don't (due to being adversely influenced by one's objective belief system), even if perhaps one exists, just the same as one can 'expect TO' hear a difference (due to being adversely influenced by one's subjective belief system), even if perhaps one doesn't.

    Therefore, objectivists don't get the sole right to play the expectation bias card, as ANY human being, no matter their belief system, can be fooled!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #244
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: cheltenham

    Posts: 746
    I'm matt.

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    Expectation bias has fooled me In short term listening sessions, but I now I think I'm harder to fool because I know I can be fooled.

    What I just said reminds me of this -


  5. #245
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonky View Post
    I wonder how you think differences in drug efficacy, for example, are meaningfully measured?

    R
    I wonder why people think drug testing is in any way commensurate with the appreciation of recorded sound? Modern Psychology? Pah! They've only just figured out that if people know they are being tested they behave differently.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  6. #246
    Join Date: Jan 2015

    Location: Leeds

    Posts: 164
    I'm Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post

    Therefore, objectivists don't get the sole right to play the expectation bias card, as ANY human being, no matter their belief system, can be fooled!

    Marco.
    It's entirely possible that objectivists suffer more (expectation) bias since they seem to be so rigid in their views. Most objectivists seem to be flexible and open minded in their views.


    Can somebody help me understand how I am being affected by expectation bias in the following situation:
    I have 3 DIY amps, they all have the same gain, I have the same emotional investment in each, they are all operated within their power envelopes etc. etc.
    Whenever I swap between them I hear a difference (short term). Over the long term I tend to gravitate to the same one.
    The same happens with the 3 mains cable "hydras" I built. These are identical except for the type of cable used.

    How is this expectation bias at work???
    Last edited by Starterman; 26-07-2017 at 11:28. Reason: As Marco pointed out below, I meant to type "subjectivists"

  7. #247
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Hi Dave,

    Before we go any further, did you mean to put 'subjectivists' here, rather than 'objectivists' (see emboldened text):

    Quote Originally Posted by Starterman View Post
    It's entirely possible that objectivists suffer more (expectation) bias since they seem to be so rigid in their views. Most objectivists seem to be flexible and open minded in their views.


    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #248
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starterman View Post
    Can somebody help me understand how I am being affected by expectation bias in the following situation:
    I have 3 DIY amps, they all have the same gain, I have the same emotional investment in each, they are all operated within their power envelopes etc. etc.
    Whenever I swap between them I hear a difference (short term). Over the long term I tend to gravitate to the same one.
    The same happens with the 3 mains cable "hydras" I built. These are identical except for the type of cable used.

    How is this expectation bias at work???
    That is not 'expectation bias' at work. You are merely acclimatising to each change in sound, as we all do when swapping items in the system. If you end up leaning towards one amplifier for instance, it is because you either prefer its sound or it is just better.

    I'm often substituting components of my system and need only say, half an hour to 'tune' myself in to the difference. Although I will remain aware of which items give the better sound (in my opinion).
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  9. #249
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 9,151
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Here we go again, presuming just because the majority accept what a very small minority tell us, then it must be fact!
    My point is; I have never been to space, I have never witnessed the curvature of the earth, and I have never been to the moon, so I have never taken a picture of the round earth from space, Ohh, by the way, apparently neither has NASA, as they openly admit that all images of the globe earth from space are fake, either painted, or photo-shopped! But does that then mean that I dis-believe one version over the other' purely because I am told to, without reputable fact, my point is, I go on my own perceptions, I trust what I feel, and hear, that does not mean that what I feel and hear' if diffrent to those around me cannot be proven, or otherwise,we just need to be open minded as we once were, science can only progress if we are, by closing our minds to new ideas and theories, we do the human race a great injustice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics View Post
    Just like the 99% who once believed the earth was flat and considered it accepted wisdom yeah In th bizarre world of audiophilia though we've gone from knowing the earth is round to the majority of non technical people going back to believing it flat in the face of all expert opinion to the contrary!
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
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  10. #250
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    Here we go again, presuming just because the majority accept what a very small minority tell us, then it must be fact!
    My point is; I have never been to space, I have never witnessed the curvature of the earth, and I have never been to the moon, so I have never taken a picture of the round earth from space, Ohh, by the way, apparently neither has NASA, as they openly admit that all images of the globe earth from space are fake, either painted, or photo-shopped! But does that then mean that I dis-believe one version over the other' purely because I am told to, without reputable fact, my point is, I go on my own perceptions, I trust what I feel, and hear, that does not mean that what I feel and hear' if diffrent to those around me cannot be proven, or otherwise,we just need to be open minded as we once were, science can only progress if we are, by closing our minds to new ideas and theories, we do the human race a great injustice.
    actually they have, and it wasn't easy



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