"Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla
Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]
www.tubedistinctions.co.uk
Matthew 5:10
Yup they are already and will in the future be SMPS. VERY powerful ones! The cars themselves use switch mode control of the motors and do this at powers of 100KW+.... and as I've already mentioned many mains regenerators are SMPS and, in effect, a class D amplifier is a SMPS!
Then there is the SMPS that are used with domestic and industrial solar panels and wind generators to make DC or varying frequency AC into 240V AC and synchronise it with the grid.... at kilowatt and megawatt levels! They're everywhere!!
When properly designed though there is nothing to fear from them
Arkless Electronics-Engineered to be better. Tel. 01670 530674 (after 1pm)
Modded Thorens TD150, Audio Technica AT-1005 MkII, Technics EPC-300MC, Arkless Hybrid MC phono stage, Arkless passive pre, Arkless 50WPC Class A SS power amp, (or) Arkless modded Leak Stereo 20, Modded Kef Reference 105/3's
ReVox PR99, Studer B62, Ferrograph Series 7, Tandberg TCD440, Hitachi FT-5500MkI, also FT-5500MkII
Digital: Yamaha CDR-HD1500 (Digital Swiss army knife-CD recorder, player, hard drive, DAC and ADC in one), PC files via 24/96 sound card and SPDIF, modded Philips CD850, modded Philips CD104, modded DPA Little Bit DAC. Sennheiser HD580 cans with Arkless Headphone amp.
Cables- free interconnects that come with CD players, mains leads from B&Q, dead kettles etc, extension leads from Tesco
"Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla
Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]
www.tubedistinctions.co.uk
Matthew 5:10
To hugely simplify things.. the faster the switching occurs the more noise it generates. The slower the switching the less efficient it will be. Linear supplies (we should really be calling them something else, such as conventional supplies, as they are far from linear! Linear regulator is accurate though) operate at mains frequency of 50Hz but switch at the top and bottom of each cycle so generate raw DC as pulses at 100Hz ie on and off 100 times a second. This is super slow motion in electronics terms! SMPS switch at around 100KHz ie 100,000 times a second and great effort is put into making each switching action as rapid as possible in order to get the best efficiency and the least waste heat.
Due to the above SMPS generate much more noise than a linear supply. However, it's at ultrasonic frequencies (above audibility unless you're a bat), whereas a linear supply generates noise at very audible frequencies.
I'm not saying that the "optimum audio PSU would be an SMPS but with well built smoothing and regulation most often found in LPSUs" no, but I am saying that with "well built smoothing and regulation most often found in LPSUs", correctly applied, they can be just as good as LPSU's.
Voltage regulators require a headroom of voltage above that wanted from their outputs. The minimum allowable being called the drop out voltage, as if it goes below this the regulator drops out of regulation. It will usually continue to give a voltage output but it will be all over the place! To use your existing SMPS you would have to be able to turn up its output to around 7-8V in order to regulate this down to 5V by a linear regulator. You would also have to bypass the rectifier as they only convert AC to DC, not the other way round. It could simply be removed and it's connections bypassed. If your SMPS can be turned up to 8V then it's easily doable but as you already have the mains transformer and case etc it makes sense to use it
Arkless Electronics-Engineered to be better. Tel. 01670 530674 (after 1pm)
Modded Thorens TD150, Audio Technica AT-1005 MkII, Technics EPC-300MC, Arkless Hybrid MC phono stage, Arkless passive pre, Arkless 50WPC Class A SS power amp, (or) Arkless modded Leak Stereo 20, Modded Kef Reference 105/3's
ReVox PR99, Studer B62, Ferrograph Series 7, Tandberg TCD440, Hitachi FT-5500MkI, also FT-5500MkII
Digital: Yamaha CDR-HD1500 (Digital Swiss army knife-CD recorder, player, hard drive, DAC and ADC in one), PC files via 24/96 sound card and SPDIF, modded Philips CD850, modded Philips CD104, modded DPA Little Bit DAC. Sennheiser HD580 cans with Arkless Headphone amp.
Cables- free interconnects that come with CD players, mains leads from B&Q, dead kettles etc, extension leads from Tesco
Sorry, yes I did mean 'well built .... as often found in LPSUs'.
No I was not actually suggesting I use an SMPS and direct its output to the Hynes regulators boards - just theorising for the purposes of understanding things. Your answer was yes so helpful.
So, if I may sum up in a simple way?
A PSU that is well built and most importantly has quality smoothing/regulation will be just the same as another PSU of similar quality build regardless if linear or switching mode. However in practice switching PSUs are often not as well built as linear PSUs leading to the general observation that linear PSUs are 'better'.
Perhaps that simplifies things too much for your taste but are those two sentences accurate as they stand?
Current: [P20] Roon/Tidal > Custom PC> Chevron Paradox NDF16 > Phast Pre > Neuro. 686 > Tannoy Berkley (RFC tweaks)
Basically yes. It takes rather more thought and effort to get the SMPS as quiet as the linear supply but yes it can be done by suitable smoothing and filtering and especially by then adding a linear regulator after that.
Most applications for power supplies are nowhere near as sensitive to these issues as hi fi equipment and most are intended for generic universal use ie supplying 12V for a printer or phone or router or lights etc etc. Unless specifically designed for very low noise etc by the addition of the means above, a universal linear regulated supply will be much quieter and better regulated than a universal SMPS.
If the PSRR of the equipment being powered is superb then it may sound the same whether the horrible noisy SMPS is used or the super duper linear regulated one.
Many/most items such as DAC's phono stages, etc that have an external PSU will have a voltage regulator built in and at least a little smoothing, meaning that so long as the SMPS is at least a decent one it should give the same results as a linear one.
El cheapo gear without even an internal voltage regulator will be very sensitive to the PSU quality.
Unregulated linear PSU's, especially of the wallwart variety (no room for really big smoothing capacitor), are the noisiest of the lot and instead of the SMPS's 0.005V of 100KHz noise will often have a volt or so of very audible 100Hz noise!
Arkless Electronics-Engineered to be better. Tel. 01670 530674 (after 1pm)
Modded Thorens TD150, Audio Technica AT-1005 MkII, Technics EPC-300MC, Arkless Hybrid MC phono stage, Arkless passive pre, Arkless 50WPC Class A SS power amp, (or) Arkless modded Leak Stereo 20, Modded Kef Reference 105/3's
ReVox PR99, Studer B62, Ferrograph Series 7, Tandberg TCD440, Hitachi FT-5500MkI, also FT-5500MkII
Digital: Yamaha CDR-HD1500 (Digital Swiss army knife-CD recorder, player, hard drive, DAC and ADC in one), PC files via 24/96 sound card and SPDIF, modded Philips CD850, modded Philips CD104, modded DPA Little Bit DAC. Sennheiser HD580 cans with Arkless Headphone amp.
Cables- free interconnects that come with CD players, mains leads from B&Q, dead kettles etc, extension leads from Tesco
... 'cos obviously on the subject of electronics, the opinions of accountants, brick layers, bakers, solicitors etc etc who have read a few "Hi-Fi Answers" magazines and been on hi fi forums for a while are equally valid to those of electronic engineers specialising in audio electronics for decades who design and repair hi fi equipment professionally.... I guess if you were ill you'd enlist the help of some bloke who saw the first 3 episodes of "Holby City" rather than a doctor? Obviously their opinions on medicine would be equally valid....
You couldn't make it up.
Arkless Electronics-Engineered to be better. Tel. 01670 530674 (after 1pm)
Modded Thorens TD150, Audio Technica AT-1005 MkII, Technics EPC-300MC, Arkless Hybrid MC phono stage, Arkless passive pre, Arkless 50WPC Class A SS power amp, (or) Arkless modded Leak Stereo 20, Modded Kef Reference 105/3's
ReVox PR99, Studer B62, Ferrograph Series 7, Tandberg TCD440, Hitachi FT-5500MkI, also FT-5500MkII
Digital: Yamaha CDR-HD1500 (Digital Swiss army knife-CD recorder, player, hard drive, DAC and ADC in one), PC files via 24/96 sound card and SPDIF, modded Philips CD850, modded Philips CD104, modded DPA Little Bit DAC. Sennheiser HD580 cans with Arkless Headphone amp.
Cables- free interconnects that come with CD players, mains leads from B&Q, dead kettles etc, extension leads from Tesco
The thing is....
Not all EE's agree on the best way to do things.
Is there perhaps an element of 'art' in the Design that goes beyond raw specifications?
Is this where keeping an open mind (engineering curiosity!) advances the established current best?
No doubt all current EE theory is sound, but is there an additional 'art' to design that advances the state of the art?
Your 640P phonostage is maybe a good example of this?
For myself, an illustration might be in having a Haynes Manual for my Car does in no way convey what its like to own and drive it?
Theres an art to design that goes beyond specifications.
As one who does it professionally myself I've seen this in a lot of different walks of life, hifi included.
Just sayin' fella
Last edited by Gazjam; 26-07-2017 at 21:01.
AC POWER
Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
AMPS
Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
SPEAKERS
Wharfedale Evo 4.4
DAC
PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
TURNTABLE
Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
PHONOSTAGE
Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
DIGITAL
OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
MUSIC PLAYBACK
Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
Ipad Roon Remote.
Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
SPEAKER CABLES
Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
INTERCONNECTS
All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables
And neither do all doctors, but there tends to be a general consensus.
Yes, there's an art to it whether you go beyond raw specifications or not. There are many ways to skin a cat and there are many cats to be skinned in an amp design. There are obvious ways to do things and less obvious ways. In adds up to art in my opinion. In fact, one of the classic electronics textbooks is called The Art Of Electronics (by Horowitz and Hill).