How loud can I go?

[Ronksley]

How loud can I go?
Normally listen at nine o clock and maybe go up to 11 or even 12 if I want it really loud and the neighbours are out and take 12 as being the limit to avoid damaging speakers
But with AV amps how does this relate as they just display -dbs on a linear scale
I have three AV amps set up with speakers as listed below all just used Stereo, the JPW sub takes the Stereo inputs from amp and then these go onto mini monitors
With the Sony and Teac -50db Yamaha -36db is loud but comfortable and just about neighbour annoying if listening to something loud, most of the time I listen to classical but do listen to some old indie metal or techno stuff every so often
So how do I know what -dbs on these av amps that are sensible loud volumes avoiding possible speaker damage ?

Speakers
Sony STR-DB795 QS
Dennon SC M50
Mordaunt-Short MS20i Pearl

Teac AG H550
JPW Mini Monitors

Yamaha RX-V459 DAB
JPW Sub and Mini Monitors

[walpurgis]

That's like asking 'how long is a piece of string?' You won't know how loud your speakers can go until you blow them up!

You can often (I won't say usually) hear when a speaker is straining, as the bass driver will be reaching the limit of its cone travel and start distorting. But not always. It can just melt its voice coil without warning. Even more likely with mid and treble drivers, you'll get no warning before they pop!

[Pharos]

I wouldn't take any notice of vu type meters on an amplifier.

Maplin sells a decent SPL meter and that is at least useful for in room measurement.

The efficiency of, and maximum power I/P which your speakers specify, are crucial to, and define, the maximum spl you can obtain from them.

Lastly, as an old gitte with damaged hearing, I would advise care in the spls you listen to; 80dB for extended periods can damage hearing.

In about '96 I measured 113dB at 30 feet from my ATC SCM 100As, (this is crazy), and most sound engineers have seriously damaged hearing. I max now at 85dB, and only on peaks, on odd occasions.
Although LF and HF are heard more easily at higher levels, it is much more sensible to improve the equipment to get more penetration into the recording.
Do not risk HF loss and also hyperacusis.

[Ronksley]

Maplin sells a decent SPL meter and that is at least useful for in room measurement.

Yes I should get a SPL meter

Spent my teens going to as many gigs as I could afford, that was in the eighties PAs were loud and guitar amps played so loud feedback was the norm, have slight tinnitus these days and cant here above 14khz. The tinnitus gets worse after I have been turning the stereo up.

Did melt the tweeter magnets of a pair of little Wharfedales I had, only work out what was wrong when I took them apart, the magnets appeared to of been bonded on somehow.

[Yomanze]

It's also crossover dependent. For example, a super-gentle 1st order crossover on the Tweeters is more likely to result in them blowing at higher volumes whereas 2nd, 3rd or 4th order crossovers have steeper slopes (less of the signal reaching them). My Royd RR3s use "modified 1st order" crossovers, and if I played these at party volumes it'd only be a matter of time before the tweeters went, especially as the datasheet recommends that 2nd order crossovers minimum are used.

[Macca]

How 'loud' it sounds depends on how much distortion is present on the signal. So with a really powerful amp and very capable speakers you will deafen yourself before you ever think that you need to be turning it down.

Position of the volume control on the amp is irrelevant. Most amps will be at full out put around half way round in any case. the dB scale on some amps is also meaningless since you don't know what their reference is and even if you did it will differ from one amp to another.

Most domestic home cinema amps will start clipping way before that, so it will sound bad and most people will turn it down at that point anyway. There is always an exception like a pal of mine who would whack his system up into severe distortion for entire listening sessions. He now has tinnitus as a result. But you do have to be pretty daft to do that. It won't happen by accident unless your amps have some very serious reserves of clean power.

[Arkless Electronics]

There is no way of doing it other than using an oscilloscope to check for clipping (or in rare cases some amps have a clipping indicator).

Volume control position is completely irrelevant as is any sort of display on the amp. A SPL meter is also useless for this.

The most common problem is tweeters blowing and this is usually because the amp is not powerful enough for the volumes being used and is clipping. This causes ultrasonic distortion at a power level which will blow the tweeter. At such high frequency all this distortion is fed to solely the tweeter and a tweeter on it's own will usually only handle say 10W even if the speaker says "200W power handling" on the back. This is why a clipping indicator can be useful.

The other speaker blowing issue is the more intuitive "too much power". This can blow any drive unit but bass drivers are the most likely. As pointed out by others above, there is not much you can do beyond common sense and having bit of "mechanical sympathy" by listening out for a speaker under distress, "end stops" being hit by woofer excursion etc...

It is generally far safer to use an amp rated at say 200W into a speaker rated for 50W than to use an amp of 20W into a speaker rated at 200W. Yes this is counter intuitive... but correct.

An add-on clipping indicator is not particularly difficult or expensive to make but the problem is it must be adjusted for a particular amp which needs test gear...

[petrat]

The most common problem is tweeters blowing ...

You should know, Jez Have you got them fixed, sorry, replaced yet?

[Arkless Electronics]

You should know, Jez Have you got them fixed, sorry, replaced yet?

Beware of coming back from a live pub gig, half cut, with ears still ringing from said gig, noticing neighbours are out and deciding to REALLY crank it up
I've not even looked at them since then... but the 105/3's will live again if there is any way possible, short of spending lots of money, as they are the best speaker I've ever owned by a long way.... in fact I can't think of any speaker at any price that I would replace them with! Your amp will be ready in a day or two BTW.

[Ronksley]

Beware of coming back from a live pub gig, half cut, with ears still ringing from said gig, noticing neighbours are out and deciding to REALLY crank it up
I've not even looked at them since then... but the 105/3's will live again if there is any way possible, short of spending lots of money, as they are the best speaker I've ever owned by a long way.... in fact I can't think of any speaker at any price that I would replace them with! Your amp will be ready in a day or two BTW.

I once got back from a gig and somehow programmed a CD I had bought of the band to repeat on tracks 4 and 14 both with lots of bass my old house mate still brings it up to this day I slept till the afternoon and that was twenty years ago ho hum

I feel ok avoiding distortion with records I know but with online sources that are already buggured up with limited bandwidth / compression etc I fine it hard to work out whats going on
think I am going to struggle to blow anything I only live in a two up two down front room is only 12 foot square ? The main problem I have is not being able to hear high frequencies some stuff just feels muddy because of this. I know the Teac could do some damage those poor little JPWs.