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Thread: Cheap upgrade for michell gyro

  1. #11
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 660
    I'm Russell.

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    I've got some styrene sheets in many thicknesses, from 0.010" to 0.080" Just about every hundredth. Very easy to cut, sand and shape, I may experiment with a damper made from it. Something else I've wanted to experiment with is the "Soundsmith EZ Mount Headshell Mounting Kit", https://www.musicdirect.com/analog-a...-headshell-kit
    It's not too expensive, but allows you to experiment with different materials and weights at the headshell. Brass, steel and nylon, and aluminum I think? One could buy small screws from eBay made from different stuff, and conduct your own experiment, but the shipping would probably bring you near the cost of this kit anyway.

    As far as replacing the main bearing, the worst case I can imagine is it would eat up the bearing. So no big deal, if that happens just put the steel bearing back in. I imagine the Delrin is pretty tough stuff. And ceramic is super hard, as long as you don't hit it with a hammer? Seems pretty safe to me.


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  2. #12
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales uk

    Posts: 142
    I'm peter.

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    Hi i think the easy way out of that use the longer Nylon bolts and use several nuts to make the head on the nylon bolt higher and less weight , so it would only cost abou $4 off ebay ,
    and if one snaps just replace with another ,the other way out is to make the damper with 2 slots that carry on to one end so you can do a fast chage with out fear of damage to the cartridge ,by sliding what ever you decide to use for the damper into place with out the need of taking the cartridge off ,the other thing you can look for is computer case thumb screws which go from m2.5 to m6 on ebay

    Peter Ledermann of Sound-Smith has said that nylon screws can help reduce resonances that contribute to sibilance

    properties of delryn/acetal Strong and stiff
    • Excellent machinability
    • Good dimensional stability
    • Low moisture absorption
    • Excellent wear properties in both wet and dry environments
    • Low friction
    • Good chemical resistance

    Product Applications
    • Bearings and bushings
    • Pump and valve parts
    • Manifolds
    • Gears
    • Jigs and fixtures
    • Packaging machinery parts
    • Food processing machinery parts
    • Electrical components
    Torlon is used in the following
    •Chemical Resistant
    •Creep Resistant
    •Ductile
    •Fatigue Resistant
    •Flame Retardant
    •Good Electrical Properties
    •High Heat Resistance
    •High Temperature Strength
    •Low Temperature Toughness
    •Ultra High Impact Resistance
    •Wear Resistant
    Uses
    •Aircraft Applications
    •Automotive Applications
    •Bushings
    Connectors
    Electrical Parts
    •Electrical/Electronic Applications
    •Fasteners
    •Film
    •Machine/Mechanical Parts
    •Oil/Gas Applications
    •Semiconductor Molding Compounds
    •Thrust Washer
    RoHS Compliance
    •RoHS Compliant
    these are High Grade Bearing balls that are with in a tolerance of .002 mm they contain PTFE but the PTFE ones are 100% ptfe and are the same grade as the Torlon and Delrin ,
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 24-07-2017 at 14:12. Reason: added more information

  3. #13
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 660
    I'm Russell.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gwernaffield View Post
    Hi i thing the easy way out of that use the longer Nylon bolts and use several nuts to make the head on the nylon bolt higher and less weight , so it would only cost abou $4 off ebay ,
    and if one snaps just replace with another ,the other way out is to make the damper with 2 slots that carry on to one end so you can do a fast chage with out fear of damage to the cartridge ,by sliding what ever you decide to use for the damper into place with out the need of taking the cartridge off ,the other thing you can look for is computer case thumb screws which go from m2.5 to m6 on ebay

    Peter Ledermann of Sound-Smith has said that nylon screws can help reduce resonances that contribute to sibilance

    properties of delryn/acetal Strong and stiff
    Excellent machinability
    Good dimensional stability
    Low moisture absorption
    Excellent wear properties in both wet and dry environments
    Low friction
    Good chemical resistance

    Product Applications
    Bearings and bushings
    Pump and valve parts
    Manifolds
    Gears
    Jigs and fixtures
    Packaging machinery parts
    Food processing machinery parts
    Electrical components
    I found a source for Delryn and Teflon material, from a wood working site actually. For making router table jigs and saw fences. Rockwell Inc., affordable! But it's also amazing what one can find on eBay, nylon screws in any shape you can imagine! The trick is knowing how to do a proper search. The styrene sheets I've got where made for modeling . So easily shaped and worked, and glued, into anything you want, one could make a whole turntable out of it if they wanted! But it is softer than Delryn. It would not Suffice for any bearing surface.

    I've been looking into replacing many aluminum parts with brass. I replaced the foot cups with brass and made a noticeable improvement in bass solidity. I see a few threaded parts on my tonearm that I could find brass screws to replace. But I still want to try your Delryn ball bearing in the main bearing! As soon as I get some other projects out of the way, I'll let you know how that goes.


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  4. #14
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales uk

    Posts: 142
    I'm peter.

    Default

    Hi Russel , i hope you manage too ,it realy does work , I am trying to find some torlon bearing balls, size 7/32 but i can only find the 6mm ones which i am going to try , if any one can help please let me know , as i have been told to try them instead of Delrin ones
    cheers peter

    update i have been running the delrin ball now for 2 weeks and have no problems , i am still waiting on the torlon 6mm to arrive, i can get some 7/32 but the cost is very high at 1. per ball, so it has put me off trying to buy the correct size for now, as i dont want a lot left in the draw ,
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 09-07-2017 at 17:34.

  5. #15
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales uk

    Posts: 142
    I'm peter.

    Default

    Hi I have now found a supplier of all plastic balls, 7 /32 are 39p plus vat , but postage is 7.70 next day or 3.50 1st clast
    PTFE solid ball is 83p plus vat and the postage, i have , 3 x 6mm and 6torlon 7/32 spare , hi i have now got some PTFE 7/32 which are 1.50 each , whch is what i paid , i have run a ptfe ball for the past 10hrs solid and no wear to the ball , at all , just pure music out of the Michell , as it now does not have a steel ball grinding on a steel shaft , but a friction resistant ball which is quieter than the steel ball that must have tranfairred sound waves through out the deck , if you want to try just drop me a email and pay the cost that is not a dealer price , but is a price what i have paid , peter
    suppliers of the bearing balls below , Torlon

    4301 extruded PAI is primarily used for wear and friction parts. It offers a very low expansion rate, low coefficient of friction and exhibits little or no slip-
    stick in use. Torlon

    4301's flexural modulus of 1,000,000 psi is higher than most other advanced engineering plastics. This grade excels in severe service wear
    applications such as non- lubricated bearings, seals, bearing cages and reciprocating compressor partsthese are a precision Ball used in medical applications , etc ,


    7/32” diameter Torlon @ 0.39 each, ex works – stock item.
    7/32 diameter PTFE @0.83 each .ex works -stock item
    Postage @ 3.50
    Pricing excl. VAT
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 22-07-2017 at 12:14. Reason: added more informatiom

  6. #16
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: North East

    Posts: 1,433
    I'm Alan.

    Default

    Further to the Delrin ball staying in....On Peter's recommendation...I have now put in a Torlon bearing...(sourced and supplied by Peter)..which is a higher grade harder more durable plastic ball as my main bearing....The sound has lifted again, incredible as it may sound...my tt has never sounded better...I'm waiting of a ptfe ball coming from Peter...to try out...which I'm looking forward to...Thanks Peter for all your help and advice...and for supplying me the bearings...top man...cheeerz Peter....Alan...



    Quote Originally Posted by mad-moon View Post
    Excellent post....I'm using a logic DM101 turntable...I've purchased the Delrin balls and the ceramic ones too...I've got a sheet of teflon1.5mm thick...and also ordered the nylon nuts and screws for the cartridge..(Goldring Eroica LX)...I've replaced the main bearing with one of the Delrin Balls...what a difference...very little noise now and all I here is the music...I'm going to cut out a damper for the cart tomorrow and fix the cart on with nylon nuts and screws...it can only get better..Don't think I'll even bother with the ceramic ball bearings.....the Delrin ball is staying where it is....Excellent tweaks Peter..many thanks...

    P.S....anyone with a Logic DM101...the bearing is 6mm..






    I got mine here x5 for 2.40..

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEARING-OP...72.m2749.l2649
    'ANSOM IN THE SUMMER..'ORIBBLE IN THE WINTER

    Cambridge Audio stream magic 6, Seagate nas drive, Sony X559ES CD Player, Michell Gyrodec SE, SME309, London pro., Primare R32, Musical Fidelity A5, Shanling dac 50, Roksan Darius speakers, Kef Calinda speakers, Target R1's, Atacama Equinox.

  7. #17
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales uk

    Posts: 142
    I'm peter.

    Default

    PTFE ball now up and running , and wow , that is all i can say , i have sent some madmoon , vintageaxman , and a couple of others i have some spare ones if any one wants to try this , NO harm has been
    done to any TT during the little tweaks , and every Tweak can be returned to factory spec ,if you dont like them but i would reccomend the ZX1 extra lube and the PTFE ball ,

    peter

  8. #18
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 660
    I'm Russell.

    Default

    So glad to hear of your improvements! And the great effect they e had.


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  9. #19
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales uk

    Posts: 142
    I'm peter.

    Default

    i am using this with the oil ZX1 extra lube , it is a friction reducer
    ZX1 C76 Microlube - 35ml - Motorsport / Race /R/C Cars / MTB / Power Tools
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZX1-C76-Mi...UAAOSwk5FU0XJo

    but only use this if you can adjust the speed or it will sound like micky mouse has his tail caught in the vice, i am not sure if you can remove it as it bonds to the metal parts , use at your own disgression
    as it is very slippy , and i will not be held responsible if you cannot remove it ,i use it in the main bearing, along with the michell oil at 50% but first put some in the body of the bearing and reinstall the thrust ball and then put some on the shaft making sure it is all covered , reassemble the bearing , reassamble the platter back on the top of the bearing , give it a spin with out the belts on
    leve it untill it stops and then put the belt back or in my case belts ,use a strobe to re time the speed with the NC power pack and that is that .

    i have always used the below C76 version and not the version for the cars
    C76 ZX1 Microlube Pin Oiler is more viscous lubricant packaged with a fine needle applicator ideal for reaching small areas where a trigger spray is unsuitable.

    Use C76 ZX1 Microlube Pin Oiler for Control cables, Gun mechanisms, Radio controlled and scaled models, Fishing tackle, Racing & Motorbikes, Hand tools, Locks etc… An absolute must have for any tool box.

    Available in 35ml bottle with needle applicator

    DON'T USE CERAMIC BEARING BALLS IN YOUR TT AS THEY CRACK OVER TIME , THE SILICONE NITRIDE BLACK BALL WAS TRIED IN GERMANY BY A RESPECTED COMPANY AND THEY FOUND OUT THEY START TO MICRO CRACK Black in colour , I AM not sure about the zink zro2 oxide , and the aluminium oxide a1203 , both are white in colour , but i have stopped using them they do make a diffrence but if they break they will distroy the bearing shaft ,
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 22-07-2017 at 12:17. Reason: more information added

  10. #20
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: North East

    Posts: 1,433
    I'm Alan.

    Default

    Can't believe it..but its happened...The teflon ball has stomped on the torlon ball.....what a big improvement....even quieter now...it's a real pleasure...the only noise I would say I have now is e very very slight record surface noise if I listen hard.....which with a low output cartridge is exceptionally good...the bass is more extended yet tighter....the mids and highs are at the most natural I've heard them in my system...I can hear the tracks run out to the very last note and the micro dynamics are superb...I cannot believe a 6mm ball is giving me these improvements....I hope I get longevity from the teflon ball...as it really is the best to date...thanks again Peter....you've came up trumps again....Alan....

    P.S. folks....I've adopted these tweaks from Peter for my Logic dm101 turntable...the Teflon bearing....the Zx1 superlube and the teflon damper for my Goldring EroicaLX cartridge...The improvements are incredible...mad-moon
    Last edited by mad-moon; 20-07-2017 at 15:02.
    'ANSOM IN THE SUMMER..'ORIBBLE IN THE WINTER

    Cambridge Audio stream magic 6, Seagate nas drive, Sony X559ES CD Player, Michell Gyrodec SE, SME309, London pro., Primare R32, Musical Fidelity A5, Shanling dac 50, Roksan Darius speakers, Kef Calinda speakers, Target R1's, Atacama Equinox.

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