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Thread: Cheap upgrade for michell gyro

  1. #21
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales uk

    Posts: 98
    I'm peter.

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    Hi Alan all good stuff , so far over a 1000 views , if any one wants a bearing ball , please drop me a line , you only pay what i have paid and make your own mind up ,
    also one other thing you can do is put some more spacers under the Arm Board , you can buy them of eBay for penny's put some blue tack under one end and push them in , is seems to work better with the SME arms ,
    and is cheap to do , just look under nylon spacers ,
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Nylo...KqTDOiMEmnM_Tw

    Well after 3 months of running diffrent balls no pun intended , the PTFE one finaly got a flat on the bottom, but kept on running , i have over 1kg in weight on top of the platter ,
    i am still using the PTFE as it is the softer if all of them ,the hardest is the torlon , but i pefair the sound of the PTFE and the thought that no damage can be done if it wears down , un like the ceramic versions that are harder if they fail it is a new bearing ,
    just put a 6mm 1.5mm disc of ptfe on the end of the bearing shaft to see if that helps the ptfe ball , there is no surface noise , at all , if it means i have to change it every s 6 months i will
    for those of you who are using ceramic bearings the higher the Grade number the poorer the Ball in roundness and surface finish and size , and also the lower the price , the higher price ones will be grade 10 in aluminum oxide, grade 3 in silicon , and grade 3 in zinc oxide bearing ball you can buy grade 5 on eBay, but not in aluminium oxide ,
    all the engeering plastic Balls are grade 1 the best you can buy as far as i no ,

    just made a Thrust plate out of ptfe it is held in place with a very small about of blutac , so far it has run and no damage to the bearing of the ball , as it is only point loaded , and kept in place with the ball , no noise in back ground at all through the record ,
    it is a sacrificial part that can be changed every year if needed, 1,5mm thick 8 mm dia with a corner cut off ,so the off set hole will drain the oil which is still working fine i am waiting on some delrin sheet to arrive ,that is used as an upgrade to the technics thrust pad ,sl1210 ,

    http://www.smbbearings.com/productpd...tion-guide.pdf noisey ceramic
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 27-07-2017 at 19:55. Reason: PTFE BAll

  2. #22
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales uk

    Posts: 98
    I'm peter.

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    Hi All
    well i have kept the following the Delrin in the tower balls they work and stop any vibration from them , use a little silicone grease on the ball and a mean a little , , or the dam thing will not go together as it will act like a piston and you will have to try very hard to get it back down , the caps for the towers still have the sound dead 1mm thick stuff in and a 1mm 'o' ring around the base to stop any ringing from that cost about 50p
    then the decision over the ball has not been made , i have the main contenders , the Torlon great but it may micro crack , so i have to double check , the Delrin sounds too much like steel , so that is out ,
    the ptfe was great but was warn away too fast , that left the Ceramic versions , all i have been told can micro crack , all i have to try , also a secret one that has a tighter grade than all of the balls tried so far
    Then that left the different spacers, the Michell decoupling kit , 3 Delrin spacers with 'O-rings and bolts built in , replace the bolts supplied with nylon and stuff a bit of rubber under the existing and that will cost 3
    That will give the upgrade , for those who want the GP up grade , go on ebay pic a acrylic vendor , measure the spacers you have below the arm board you have now , if it is a rega it will be around 10mm, i think Trent plastics will do it for you as a special order it is a 114 dia meter ring with a 89 mm hole , it should cost no more than 15 -20 , buy the neo rubber 1mm thick , when it arrives , remove the arm board and arm off the arm board
    you will see a sticker saying front ,carefully clamp the rubber and the ring and the arm board all together and drill the 3 x 5 mm holes ,
    remove the clamp and cut the rubber to shape , and put the whole lot back on the deck i used 3 nylon bolts as the acrylic and the rubber together may be heavy and may make it more than the 1 kg limit and over balance the deck causing the belt to come off or give noise, or may tilt toward the arm ,
    total cost for solid ebay spacer is 20-22 , with rubber and nylon 606 bolts , and not the 120 for the GP version
    as for the main bearing i cannot help you with that i have experimented with the PTFE as a Thrust plate and it works but it is up to you if you want to try that , the problem is that the top of the bearing is shaped like a bell the ball sits in, that and is point loaded on the shaft below , i am told that the ball does not move , it only moves on the point below ,but the high frequency must travel up the centre into the vinyl into the cartridge
    and out to your ears, when i got it correct the sound stage frightened the living daylights out of me, how good it could be, and how sad it was ,
    i so if you want to try the PTFE plate try it but like all of this stuff it is up to you , and not me , some have worked to be great and some has been utter crap , so there we go honesty which is needed in HIFI ,
    if you Must chage the clamp to the ORBE Version ,go on Ebay and Buy 2 3/8 BSF HALF NUTS , these can be locked onto the shaft , useing 2 spanners and cover the brass part of the bearing with duct tape hold that is some grips do not over tighten or throw it in the bin , the top part will un screw easy with the 2 3/8 bsf nuts locked into place , unscrew and then replace with the new top using the same 3/8 bsf nuts , .re install the bearing and oil , etc , keep the old calmp and the top shaft and the 2 nuts , if you now want to sell it you can as it will not be damaged , or you can replace it back onto the deck and sell the orbe one and get some CASH back
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 27-08-2017 at 23:39.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 558
    I'm Russell.

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    That's some excellent research Peter, you've left no stone unturned in your search for a better bearing! I think your ideas will actually work better on a simpler bearing? If it were a simple ball bearing down a hole with a flat ended shaft standing on it, then you wouldn't experience the odd wear you're getting. But the PTFE thrust plates are a great work around for your situation. Inventive thinking!

    And if you are using a tonearm without a VTA adjustment, shimming it up shouldn't be all that difficult? I've seen some sheets of Teflon in the wood working catalog, to make slick surfaces for router tables, etc. cutting out a layer to raise the arm by tracing the base onto it, cutting it out with a coping saw or jig saw, even sharp scissors if its thin enough. And may help deaden the vibrations between the table and the arm as well as your bearings? Inspirational work Peter, seems like you've covered all the bases!


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  4. #24
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales uk

    Posts: 98
    I'm peter.

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    well i have had the bearing top remade in delrin , and up will be and running all night for too days to see if it falls a part but so far it is very quite not that the michell bearing is not quiet but it should help with any vibration from the ball on top of the shaft , the shft has been altered to suite the material and is a composite of diffrent materials now , i will not put it all on here, it is spot on below is the first stage and then somethig else is added and the ball is change and some thing else is added , all sectret crap , only one like this , so that is why the Bloke of ebay who machined it done a great job ,
    , no static at all on the record , using a oyaide 780 grm weight , instead of clamp , but i can use the clap if needed , so now all the testing happens ,
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 09-09-2017 at 18:29.

  5. #25
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales uk

    Posts: 98
    I'm peter.

    Default

    Update the arm spacer is 29 for 2 or 20 for one from wholesaleplastics off ebay , due to the thickness for SME. the one for the rega is cheaper and is 10mm thick ,the sme one is 12mm , add the 1.5 mm rubber ring and it will bring it up to the required height , the same as Gert's one but 100 cheaper , as they have to be ordered as 2 at a time to keep the cost down ,
    The Delrin bearing top is running great no problems and no noise into the platter , all you hear is what is on the vinyl with no added bits off the turntable, ( i still use the 780grm clamp not the clap as above LOL i must get better glasses, ) the bearing top has cleared all the music up , i need someone who lives near mold to call and listen to the deck, it is easy to fool yourself that it sounds better but only someone else can say it is crap or better after spending money out ,

  6. #26
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales uk

    Posts: 98
    I'm peter.

    Default

    size of the diameter of the rings , 114mm with a 89- 85 mm hole , if you go any smaller on the it will be too heavy as the weight limit for an arm and board is 1kg according to michell , but you can go to 1.1max ,

  7. #27
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: North East

    Posts: 1,299
    I'm Alan.

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    The logic dm101 is now out of service and will be going up for sale shortly....I've invested In a Gyrodec SE...peter has sent me the balls for the towers and the main bearing which I will be trying out shortly.....first thing I've done is put in the acrylic spacer Peter has just sent me....makes a big difference....spacer..rubber washer and nylon bolts hold the tonearm board/tonearm to the tt...which totally decouples any metal to metal contact between arm and table....the picture shows steel bolts...as at first I couldn't get the nylon bolts in...they were too tight to screw right down...however...I've run a bolt up and down the threads with superlube and I now have the nylon bolts holding it all to the table

    [IMG]309 SPACER by alan moon, on Flickr[/IMG]

    And below with images of the nylon bolts in place

    [IMG]SME NYLON by alan moon, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]SME NYLON 2 by alan moon, on Flickr[/IMG]

    I'd just like to add....as with all these inexpensive tweaks and upgrades/improvements....everything can be put back to a stock Gyrodec....should you feel the need....
    Last edited by mad-moon; Yesterday at 22:22.
    'ANSOM IN THE SUMMER..'ORIBBLE IN THE WINTER

    Cambridge Audio stream magic 6, Seagate nas drive, Sony X559ES CD Player, Logic DM101 turntable, Rega RB300 / Goldring Eroica, Denon DAP-2500 digital pre, Denon POA4400A monoblocs, Shanling dac 50, Roksan Darius speakers, Target R1's, Atacama Equinox.

  8. #28
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 36,549
    I'm Grant.

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    Lovely bit of engineering that arm.
    Regards,
    Grant ....

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
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  9. #29
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales uk

    Posts: 98
    I'm peter.

    Default and yet another 309 with Carbon fiber armboard

    well just to prove i practice what i preach here is another 309 on a carbon fiber arm board just getting fitted with the home made spacer , the twin to mad moon's 309 bought off here and has been modified by sme yesterday and returned to day great service
    Attached Images Attached Images

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